2010-03-30 Meeting Report (Wright Gas Well)SPIN MEETING REPORT
CASE NO. GAS10 -001 GAS10 -002 GAS10 -003
PROJECT NAME: XTO Joe Wright Unit Associated Pipeline
SPIN DISTRICT: Citywide SPIN 8
MEETING DATE: March 30, April 1, and April 5, 2010
MEETING TIME: 6:30 PM 7:30 PM: Information Open House
7:30 PM 9 PM: Presentation Q &A Session
MEETING LOCATION: 1400 MAIN STREET, SOUTHLAKE, TEXAS
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
TOTAL ATTENDANCE: March 30, 2010 Forty -Seven (47)
April 1, 2010 Twenty -One (2 1)
April 5, 2010 Twenty -Two (22)
SPIN REPRESENTATIVE(S) PRESENT: Patty Minder #8); Ronald Evans #10)
APPLICANT(S) PRESENTING: Walter Dueease, Senior Regulatory Affairs
Coordinator, XTO; Richard Smith, Director of Engineering, Energy Transfer; Anthony
Welty, Operations Project Engineer, Energy Transfer
STAFF PRESENT: Alison Ortowski, Assistant to the City Manager; Lorrie Fletcher,
Planner I
STAFF CONTACT: Lorrie Fletcher, (817)748 -8069; Ifletcher @ci.southlake.tx.us
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Property Situation
The gas well site is generally located west of the intersection of Mustang Court and State
Highway 26. The pipeline route consists of two segments: Segment 1 will generally run west
from the proposed well site to Brumlow and then south to State Highway 26 where it will run
generally west through the City of Grapevine. Segment 2 of the proposed pipeline will begin
at the intersection of County Road 404 and Southlake Boulevard and run east along
Southlake Boulevard until just west of Stonebridge Lane where it will turn north and then
east eventually intersecting with Randol Mill Avenue where it will proceed north to the city
limits.
Introduction
Patty Minder, SPIN 8 representative, introduced the items for discussion and the
applicants.
Walter Dueease, Senior Regulatory Affairs Coordinator, XTO
Introduced himself and presented information regarding the gas well proposed. He gave
history of XTO and talked about XTO currently. He discussed the different phases involved
in the drilling process and horizontal drilling. Examples were shown of the drill rig and
acoustical walls. The Barnett Shale was discussed showing the different gas drilling areas,
explaining the core area. He stated there are currently 2500 wells in Tarrant County. He
explained the wellbore and talked about completion activity. Fracture stimulation was
explained stating this would be conducted during daytime hours only. He presented a typical
facility and discussed security and safety measures. A list showing areas of concern and
how they are addressed was presented. He showed the concept plan associated with this
site and talked about who would benefit from this operation.
Rick Smith, Director of Engineering, Energy Transfer
Introduced himself and presented information regarding the pipeline route proposed. He
gave an overview of Energy Transfer and talked about transportation needs associated with
the drill site. He stated Energy Transfer operates over 250 miles of pipeline serving the
Barnett Shale. He talked about the specific routes proposed in Southlake, discussing
segments 1 2. Segment 1 is proposed to be approximately 1.31 miles of 12 inch pipe;
Segment 2 is proposed to be approximately 1.96 miles of 16 inch pipe. He explained
pressure, the construction process, HDD and open cut installation options. He discussed the
importance of safety regarding the community at large, the pipeline and employees. He
explained the information hotline that is available for questions or concerns.
QUESTIONS CONCERNS March 30, 2010
The proposed site is 1000 feet from Southlake residents but is within 1000 feet of
Grapevine High School. How does that work with Grapevine? Do you have to gain
their permission?
o WD I have sent letters to their City Manager and am open for discussion
and questions. The activity occurs within the City of Southlake.
Does Grapevine have the same restrictions?
o Grapevine does have restrictions I believe it is 300 feet from protected
structures.
Is protected structure a school?
o Yes... church, school and residence
I've heard a lot of people talk about cancer. I am very concerned about this.
o What specifically is your question?
How will you protect us from emissions that cause cancer?
o This is an area of concern... I think it is important to note that there are a
number of studies being done that directly identify what the areas of concern
are. TCEQ has stated that Ft. Worth did not show dangerous levels. Also
important to know is that there are Benzene detectors in Ft. Worth and Dallas
that actually show a decrease in levels; reason being the decrease in
Benzene contained in gasoline being used by our automobiles. Benzene is
found in many sources on a daily basis. We will do everything we possibly
can in monitoring our well site. The core map shows that this area is a dry
gas production area which does not have the high liquid carbons.
1 have a question about water... what do you do with the water and how is it treated?
In fracing, where does the water come from and go?
o We will use approximately 10,000 barrels of water during the drilling process.
That water is turned into mud. We use clay and other materials to help
stabilize the hole while we're drilling it. That mud can be reused on another
wellbore, then transported to an approved disposal facility and not kept here
in the City of Southlake. It is retained on site in above ground storage tanks.
The water that is used during the fracturing process, in this particular case we
would prefer to buy water from the City of Southlake or the nearest entity.
And this would be treated or drinking water if at all possible for the fracturing
process. The amount that is used could be 40 to 50 thousand barrels, so say
3 million gallons of water. That water is injected into the Barnett Shale
formation with sand. We recover the majority of that during the flow -back
period and the initial year or two of production and periodically as the
production tanks on the site fill up with water. It would then be removed by a
trucking contractor and hauled to a disposal facility some distance away from
here. The City of Southlake does not allow for a disposal well and we're not
planning to drill or dispose of any of these fluids within the City of Southlake.
As tanks are filled, they are removed?
o Yes
Once you start this process, is there an end date to this or just continues forever?
That's a good question, the first well would take approximately 15 days we
would complete the well after a few months and the completion project would
take about a week. If we found the reservoir to be productive, if we found that
there were strong product prices to sell the gas, we would hopefully have a
fairly active drilling program here to develop the minerals beneath this
acreage to benefit the cities and the homeowners that we have leased
property from.
So if you find something, you would continue for the next 15 years?
No... I'm sorry, I'm really not answering your question. We would not have a
continuous activity with a drilling rig out there for the next 5 years. It's price
driven; there's an economic decision that would have to be made. It's also
one that's based on what we find in the Barnett; how good a well it's going to
be and if it's going to pay off. It's a business decision. It's possible that drilling
could take place at this pad site for several years to come, on a periodic
basis.
My wife is concerned about environmental impact. There are articles I
have read about leukemia. Having all that in mind, my wife told me we
should fight to stop it. I said we can't... people that live here have
signed leases. Honestly, can you tell me one thing we can use to stop
this?
o I'm not sure that I can... that's a very good question; no one has asked that
question of me.
I'm concerned about the water. Would it be safer to use a pipeline to dispose of it?
o The Railroad Commission and the TCEQ have regulations that deal with the
disposal of fluids that are produced associated with an oil and gas operation
and the law basically tells us where we have to put the water that's produced
out of these wells and at this moment I'm not sure I could tell you where the
closest disposal facility is but it would likely be in Wise County 15 to 20
miles. I don't know that we could get there from here. One of the safest and
most reliable methods of removing the produced fluids from a well to a
disposal facility is through contract water haulers. There's quite a bit of traffic
on SH 26 but I don't think that it's at a level that is deemed to be congested or
full to a point that it cannot accommodate a few more added vehicles. Many
pipeline easements may not necessarily allow for water to be piped through
that same easement that is used for a gas line.
Have you done any environmental impact studies for air and water or if you would
consider doing them?
o We have not done any environmental impact assessments for the air and
water. We are working through the comments with the city staff regarding
environmental considerations for this pad site and it may include some
components as to what you are referring to as an environmental impact
analysis.
I'm concerned about the air that we breathe and the water tables and
aquifers in the creek.
o That is something that we take into consideration with the casing and
cementing design and the daily monitoring of the well to ensure that we do
not have any type of break through from the well bore or from the reservoir to
any of the perched water supplies or the aquifer. There is an ambient noise
survey that has been performed and is a part of the gas well application
package that we submitted. We are looking into ambient air testing adjacent
to this pad site.
The EPA reports that I've seen said that the pollution from drilling and
fracing will equal the pollution that we have from all the cars in the
area. What are you doing to make sure that air pollution is not
increased by this production?
o We abide by the requirements of not only the TCEQ and the Railroad
Commission but also the EPA. I think what you just quoted is a comment. I
don't know that it is fact based. There have been some offsetting remarks
regarding the contribution of emissions from oil and gas activity and that it did
not exceed or equal the amount of VOC's from the cars and other vehicles in
the Ft. Worth area.
that study came from Dr. Armendariz at SMU who is now the Region
6 Director of the EPA.
That was when Dr. Armendariz was with SMU and that was last Summer. I
think there has been recent work about some of those findings and also some
other studies that may not necessarily agree with that. I'd be glad to visit with
you at some point later on if wanted to call me.
What about the fracing? You say it's just sand and water.. no
chemicals? Anything that we should be worried about?
The constituents that we use in the drilling mud and the fracturing process
have been supplied to the City of Southlake as part of the Materials Safety
Data Sheets in the gas well application.
Did you know that we don't really have water here? In the Summer
we have to ration it... where is that going to come from?
o That is something that we will have to solve. We would have to find another
source of water someplace close by. It is not our intention to drill a water well.
There are owners that are benefiting from the drilling... monetary benefit?
o Yes, many individuals are under a lease
What if you didn't sign a lease?
o That is a contractual question. You will need to speak to a XTO land man.
Part of the pipeline is going to be in my backyard on Randol Mill; I have concerns.
Have you done property value studies?
o RS with regard to you being a homeowner, I would like to talk with you
regarding the plan. We will sit down with each land owner and use fair market
pricing for negotiating easement. Study was done recently that concluded
that there were no detrimental effects on property values.
1 would like to see a more comprehensive route map showing the
entire route.
o What we presented tonight were the portions in Southlake.
Is the pipeline going to be on the east or west side of Randol Mill?
o The west side
What is the timeline from today to when you turn on the pipe? There are three cities
involved, how do you plan to coordinate the pipelines?
The pipeline will be installed after approval from the city for the well site.
Construction will take about 6 months. We are working with cities and their
applications are permit requirements. The process is driven by the producer.
WD if the city grants XTO approval, we plan to drill by August and hope to
finish by September. The pipeline installation would immediately follow.
The city is doing future construction along Randol Mill. Do you anticipate traffic
issues?
o RS we are developing a traffic plan to minimize impact and working with the
city.
The areas on the map in white are a minimum of four feet deep; one of those areas
is located in a creek way. What are you doing to constantly monitor those areas?
o The route shown is preliminary. We will make adjustments as needed. We
are required to submit plans that show pipeline under the creek deep enough
to be safe.
At what point will you have your corridor more definitive so people know what exactly
is happening? Are you asking the city to approve this plan shown?
o This is a corridor open for adjustments. We are working with the city now to
establish corridor. Next, we will work with landowners in having a definitive
route.
This process will include Bear Creek; the purpose of those trees is to
provide erosion control in addition to adding value to the homes. Will
you then be disclosing what trees will be removed?
o Our first thought is avoidance. If we can avoid cutting a resource, that is what
we will do. We will take all consideration in recognizing the importance of
trees.
Should I tell my neighbors you will have more information in 30 to 60
days?
o Please encourage your neighbors to call us. We will be happy to get their
input in getting our route mapped out.
The city's website says this is an unregulated pipeline. What does that mean?
o The definition of unregulated is by virtue of the process with the City of
Southlake. We are regulated pipeline through the Railroad Commission with
the State of Texas and also installing the pipeline with respect to the federal
code of regulations. That is just a designation that the city has deemed as
part of their process.
The diagram shows various horizontal drill lines when multiple drill
sites are produced. Will land men initiate leases with all of these
people?
o WD this diagram is just conceptual. Just a couple of steps into a lengthy
process. We hope we pass through P &Z and City Council. Once things fall
into place, conceptual could become reality. Nothing is etched in stone at this
point. Multiple units could be formed from this pad site. This is what we would
like to see and yes, additional leases would be required.
Is this un- odorized gas? How will we know when there's a leak?
o RS we have a gas control system that monitors the pressures in the
pipeline so they can tell any variations to the pipeline where there may be an
issue with it. These valves we have installed are remote operated so they can
open and close the valves from the gas control area in San Antonio, TX; so
they monitor the pipeline very closely to the extent that they're may be any
issues with it.
There's never a problem with valves sticking?
o No, we are required to have certain maintenance on the valves where our
operation folks are required to go out and stroke the valves, operate the
valves, lubricate the valves and make sure they are kept in fully operational
condition. We take safety very seriously in design, construction, and
operation.
The pipeline goes out to Pleasant Run and connects to another place
there, is there going to be a compression station?
No, there is no compression planned at all with respect to the pipeline.
How do you get it moved through the line if it's low pressure?
By virtue of the well heads, it's able to push it through the pipeline in terms of
having a low deferential through the pipeline.
The pipelines are monitored from San Antonio... are they monitored 24 hours a day,
once a week, how often?
o It's 24/7
The gas pipeline explosion in Palo Pinto County about three years ago that created a
hole as tall as this building... once in a million chance for that to happen but what if
that happens to your pipeline? What is there to prevent it from happening? Can you
prevent it?
I don't know specifically about the pipeline instance you are talking about but
we take safety very seriously and some of the things I went over earlier in
terms of the horizontal directional drill to make the pipeline a lower depth.
Statistically, one of the greatest impacts to a pipeline result from third party
damage where people sometimes don't do the one call or the follow up and
they get into the pipeline so we've mitigated that from the standpoint to where
we've lowered the pipeline in populated areas such as Southlake and also
where we've tied the pipeline in with the drill, we'll put in what's called safety
tape to the extent so if someone starts digging, they will hit the tape first
before they get to the pipeline in addition, the pipeline will have markers
periodically so people will know there is a natural gas pipeline there as well.
So low pressure doesn't have any bearing on an accident like an
explosion, it's more penetrating the line than anything?
Statistically, for gas pipelines attributed to those things are third party
damage. We've mitigated that with the high strength carbon steel, lowering
the pipeline, putting safety tape and markers, 24/7 on the gas control, our
operations folks we have in the area will be staffed and monitoring the
pipeline as well. In addition, the city requires us to have yearly briefings with
the community at large and our operations folks will be working with the local
emergency response and planning folks as well in terms of interaction of
pipeline safety.
Who allows this kind of project to go forward when the health of all residents is
affected and we already have bad air quality and we are going to endanger it further?
o WD Let me understand what you believe to be the water and air quality
impacts as a result from these activities.
I've heard that the fracturing destroys the ground water; the leakage
from it contaminating ground water. And the Benzene is one chemical
that has been mentioned but I'm convinced that there are others.
o The well bore is not just a hole in the ground that is left open to any other
formations that are above the zone of interest or down below it. It's cased
with steel just like Rick was talking about with the pipeline. It's also coated
and has cement on the outside of it. We design it with the intention so it
doesn't fail and with safety factors similar to the pipeline. We don't want
failure and we don't want to impact ground water. The ground water is no
deeper than 1500 feet in the Trinity and Paluxy aquifer. We take every
measure possible to protect it. I have kids that go to school here, I live here, I
sleep here... we have a great deal at stake. I'm not sure that I agree with you
that our fracturing process impacts the ground water; during drilling or
disposal operations. Regarding the air quality, we would have to agree that
the Fort Worth Dallas area is in a situation with air quality. They were in a
situation before the last 200,000 people moved here or prior to the Barnett
Shale drilling activity. Regardless of that, it is very important for us to use lean
emission engines during the drilling and fracing process that cut down on the
emissions in this area and that we monitor our tank batteries and our facilities
to ensure that we have the lowest possible emissions rate. We are so below
the level set by the TCEQ that we can easily meet the thresholds. We find air
quality important and intend to abide by all regulations set.
You're comfortable with these rules in protecting your own family?
o Yes maam
QUESTIONS/ CONCERNS —April 1, 2010
1 have a question about the compressors. You said there were no compressors, why
don't we need compressors?
o RS The best layman's analogy I can put to a compressor, not withstanding
the pressures you use at home, is a compressor is like your heart. The
purpose of your heart is to take blood and pump it throughout your body. In a
pipeline system as you are trying to transport natural gas, you have to have a
heart in order to get the gas along the pipeline system. What a compressor
does is it imparts energy into the system to get it from point A to point B and
get it on down the system. The system is designed at this point given the
contractual requirements of XTO and for what they need, from a system
design standpoint, do not require compression.
So you don't foresee ever needing it?
o No, not for what we know at this time.
You talked about open cuts and HDD... my concern is with the proposed section of
open cut at Timarron. Before you go to P &Z, will you have made that determination?
We would like to know the final decision before the process starts.
What we would like to do is after the SPIN meetings are over is take that next
step. The reason why we have not been in the field to date is because there
was some concern that if we got out in the field and held discussions that we
didn't want to usurp the SPIN process. Once we complete those activities
Monday night, we would like to meet with you, take a look and get on the
ground and start assessing the route.
So that will be done prior to P &Z
Yes, we will endeavor to get that evaluation done. The objective is to save
the trees and go under them.
This looks like a really good plan. In the areas where you have to dig, is the plan to
return it as it was so if you have to take a tree away, will we get an established tree
back?
o We will have a mitigation plan in order to return the land equal or better than
it was. From a pipeline stand point, you do not want to plant trees directly
over the top of the pipeline because the roots would grow and get down to
the pipeline. We will do the best we can to restore that. That is why we go
way below the trees but to the extent that we have to do an open cut and be
closer to the surface, we'll take a look at that. Generally, we don't allow deep
rooted plants over the pipeline.
The media has done stories on Methane gas release associated with some of the
safety equipment I think over in the Keller area. Are we going to have issues with
Methane gas release associated with this drilling? Are there things we need to talk
about or understand to address this potential issue?
o WD I'm not familiar with particular issues in Keller. I don't believe we will
have issues with them. I think there have been a number of studies published
and reviewed and there have been a great deal of information and
disinformation. I think that perhaps the concern could be not so much
Methane but Benzene. And so we are in the business of selling what we
make and it's very critical to us to find the gas and get it up to surface and
contain it and get it into sales line so perhaps we can get it into people's
houses so it can warm their homes and provide power. Certainly there are
byproducts in production of hydrocarbons but in this particular area of
Southlake and this particular part of the Barnett formation, we are very
comfortable with the gas analysis of the wells that are nearby that have no
detectable Benzene in the gas stream. The core area is designated as an
area that produces dry gas. It's the condensate that is the source of Benzene.
What if that is not true? Will there be testing and monitoring?
o Yes, the sample for quality is taken to an independent laboratory to analyze
and identify the constituents in the gas. The nearest wet gas is many miles
west of here into Wise and Parker County. I can be comfortable in saying
what we anticipate is very likely what we will get but nonetheless it will be
tested to be sure. There are methods we can take to mitigate any issues.
Fracing has been described as using only sand and water. I have read countless
studies and reports, even from the TCEQ and EPA noting that this material is not
only sand and water but it is also a proprietary blend of toxic fluids. Can you address
that?
o The approximate percentage is 97% fresh water and frac sand. The
remaining 3% consists of friction reducers, gelling or vascasifiers and some
other agents. As you said is there proprietary? I can't tell you what's in a
proprietary solution or constituent that is put in there. I think that perhaps
some companies that perform this service here and elsewhere in the country
have agreed to make their products known. We do provide to the city the
Material Safety Data Sheets that describe the properties of all the products
we introduce to the well bore as well as at the surface.
Does the output of sand and water and other materials have to be
transported on a noted hazardous waste truck?
o No sir. That part of our business is similar to other vehicular traffic that
transports fluid in that they have to meet department of transportation
standards. However, the disposal of the fluid must meet the regulations of the
Texas Railroad Commission and the TCEQ and to some extent the EPA.
There is no "warning" sign required on these trucks.
I am concerned about the chemicals that are in our water and air from the fracing.
Who and how often are tests done on the air quality and the ground water safety in
the area?
o How often is daily, from the standpoint that the well site is visited by an XTO
employee. We have automated measuring equipment that is checked on
every day. I'm not aware that the fracturing process has contaminated any
ground water aquifers. The EPA late last year produced a study that claimed
there is no evidence of that occurring.
So nobody is monitoring that except for your company? There's no
government agency that comes around and tests?
In some cities, I'm not sure Southlake will do this but they have identified the
need for a gas well inspector, but in other cities a contract gas well inspector
will come out and do periodic gas well inspections on our equipment. Also,
the Texas Railroad Commission has inspectors that perform inspections and
tests on our equipment. We can tell if there is a failure of down -hole
equipment by an increase in pressure on the outside casing string at 1200
feet. We can see in a pressure gauge that is placed on the well head.
So there's not a set time when someone from the railroad commission
comes out and inspects?
No maam. I'm not aware of a specific inspection schedule by the railroad
commission.
You say that someone from XTO will come out to your facility. Are they doing any air
testing? Taking any canister samples? Any scientific testing at all? There have been
numerous studies recently that have shown excess of Benzene, Carbon Disulphides,
all kinds of things we don't want to be breathing. Who's checking on this?
We are going to see Benzene where there is a condensate production. And
we can see where there is condensate production in the green tanks. We
gauge them, we measure the volume in them daily so we know what's
coming out of the wells. We have a very clear idea if there is a need to take
that next step forward. The gas analysis tells us all of the constituents in the
gas and it's going to say if there is Benzene, Ethane, Butane, or anything
else. We know what the production is in the well. If there is condensate in the
tank then there is going to be potential for Benzene; then you have to look at
the levels that may impact life and health. I disagree with you regarding some
of the studies that you have mentioned. This year there has been a rebuttal to
a number of the studies by the TCEQ and a peer review by Rice University.
No immediate health concerns exist. The TCEQ's office of compliance and
enforcement did a study of 126 sites in Ft. Worth; no carcinogens and no
dangerous ambient conditions existed.
In reviewing the study and its disclaimers, I believe that study was
flawed. They did it on the coldest days of the year. What is the
freezing temperature of Benzene... 42 degrees?
Benzene does not freeze at 42 degrees. There were also in the 3 -phase
study... the first month of testing was done in August. What is the ambient
temperature in August? You would have to agree that it is significantly greater
than December.
That study was very limited... we need to wait until long term studies
have been done and we know for sure that these toxins are not going
to affect our family and our environment.
o I respect your position on that and I can tell you are concerned. I have kids
that live here too. My experience in my profession has me confident in what
we do and what I am telling you.
1 am very concerned about unodorized gas coming through our community. I know
you say you have your safety measures in place and that you're monitoring it in San
Antonio. It is not acceptable to me that unodorized gas is going through our
community and we won't know that it's leaking until there is a problem. Now maybe
you will catch it or maybe somebody will turn their BBQ on. It has to be odorized...
it's dangerous.
o RS most of the pipeline companies in the United States, in terms of the
interstate transportation, are not odorized. Having said that, we have certain
safety measures in place, we have operation staff in the area, we do aerial
patrols and annual leak detection surveys. We have the measures and
protocol in place. The key being that our gas control can measure the
pressure in the pipeline and can take the necessary action in the event that
there is a deviation from that and go and check the system.
How long does it take to shut off the valve?
They can push a valve instantaneously and shut it
Somebody has to be watching to be able to do that.
Right, our gas controllers and staff work 24/7 and they are watching the
pipeline. In that event, our operations staff is sent out to check the system.
WD one of the reasons that interstate pipelines and gathering lines don't
odorize the gas is that the whole thing is designed to smell gas in an
enclosed area or gas that is less refined. This gas is so well refined that you
wouldn't smell it because it would go immediately liberated into the
atmosphere. And if you think about the atmosphere that we're in, it has a
specific gravity of one. So the specific gravity of the gas that's being
transported might be 6.6 or 6.5 maybe.. it's almost like helium. How does it
help to put an odorizer in the gas?
Just six weeks ago I was driving by Central Market and smelled a very strong natural
gas smell and called Atmos and yes they found that someone working along Carroll
had hit a pipeline and caused a disruption. It was because of the smell that I called
them.
o RS Atmos is considered a local distribution company and they are required
to odorize their gas because of where those lines run.
1 know you are considered interstate but right here in Timarron is local
to us.
o Most instances are caused by third party damage. This is why we propose
the HDD process for 90% of our line. At points of tie -in we use safety tape
and measures so someone who might be digging will get to the tape before
they ever reach the pipeline.
QUESTIONS CONCERNS April 5, 2010
Could not hear the speaker
RS —In segment one the pipeline route is approximately 1.3 miles and
segment two is approximately 1.96 miles. The horizontal direction drills will be
anywhere in sections from 1000 to 1300 feet. We will try and get a 2000 foot
drill as well.
The depth that you go, is that a lesser depth than if we were tapping
into geothermal energy or a deeper depth than geothermal energy?
If we do an open cut, the pipeline would be about 4 to 5 feet deep. Horizontal
drilling will place the pipe 10 to 15 feet or deeper.
If we were to consider tapping geothermal energy, how deep would
we be going?
WD I'm not a geologist and don't know that I can answer your question
about the depth at which geothermal energy could occur here. We know of no
geothermal potential in this basin. Certainly we have rigs that have the ability
to drill to 20 or 30 thousand feet today but I don't know of any geothermal
potential in the Ft. Worth basin.
Cannot understand the speaker... they try tapping geothermal energy
in the name of greed and they had a little bit more frequent
earthquakes than they had anticipated so they go deeper and not in
this instance where we are just trying to tap gas instead of geothermal
energy. We are going that deep but can't we get an earthquake? We
already have some pipelines you folks just talked about in the
surrounding areas including in Ft. Worth so we are drilling more and
more and in the surrounding areas and by the loss of physics is the
disintegration of the foundation of Mother Earth. It's just a matter of
time... maybe in one year, maybe ten years, maybe 50 years before
the ground collapses with all the houses and people on top of it. Have
you folks talked about this?
No sir we have not, we are the business of exploring for hydrocarbons and
not for geothermal energy.
1 understand, what my point is, if this can happen with drilling for
geothermal energy, it's much easier for this to happen with the
process that you are doing.
Our geologists and geophysicists have not given us any indication that our
drilling has any relationship to any earthquakes as you have described.
Have you asked them?
o Yes
What was their answer?
o Their answer is that they believe that the drilling in the Barnett Shale and
other gas and oil bearing formations in the Ft. Worth basin does not have a
relationship to earthquakes.
There were a few reports of earthquakes in the last couple of years in
the DFW area attributed to drilling just south of Dallas about 20 miles
or so. It is difficult to believe that destroying the underlying foundation
of Mother Earth will have no impact on the things that are there on the
surface. Maybe one hole won't make a difference but there are
multiple holes around this area and in Ft. Worth. It's a matter of time
before this area is encircled and the center gives way and the things
on top of it collapse. Ft. Worth, nothing happened... Southlake, maybe
nothing happens but every drill you do, it's like your shaking the solid
foundation of Mother Earth. Regardless what you ask your
geophysicists or anybody, the laws of physics say when the
foundation is weak, the structure on top has to fall.
I just want to get a clarification on from the first step in the process of starting the
timelines involved, what is the timeline of starting the rig until getting into production?
And how long does it take to build the 3+ miles of pipeline? And, I'm concerned from
a first responders standpoint, they're not trained in oil and gas issues... what do you
do regarding providing them training if something were to happen?
o WD one of the exhibits we have provided to the city is the route for the first
responders to the drill site. The first responders would be notified in the City
of Southlake and also the City of Grapevine. Training is a good point... we
have a program at XTO called Train the Trainer and it would be where our
health and environmental safety professionals would be able to come to the
city and spend time with their crews and explain our activity and visiting sites
and show them where potential for injury exists and how to respond to those.
That is something that is very critical to us. The timeline, if we were granted
this permit in the next couple of months, it's possible we would start the
location construction in September. A well could be drilled in October or
November and completion would take place next Spring. At that time we
would be ready to sell gas then the pipeline would begin transportation.
o RS let me address the emergency response... the city has mandated under
their ordinance to require us to train and interact with the local emergency
response personnel and first responders and we are required to do that on an
annual basis as well, and provide a debriefing with the landowners. ETC does
that as a normal standpoint for safety. Construction takes approximately 6
months, and we will construct both segments concurrently.
What is the responsibility for you to repair the ground to its pre-
existing state?
In terms of HDD there is no impact to the surface. The only impact there will
be is where we have to come up to do a tie -in and we have to restore that to
a better condition than we found it. There are no valves along the pipeline...
the tie -in location may be about 50 ft. by 50 ft. but that's the important thing
about us getting on the ground and walking the route to get landowner's
permission for access so we can look at specific technical parameters relative
to how we can do the drill to get it in.
If you have to do an open cut, what is involved in that section?
In terms of an open cut, the pipeline would be buried to about 4 ft. to top of
pipe and normally we would come in and have a work space somewhere
around 75 ft. wide. And we have to restore the land to a better condition than
found.
I have a student in Grapevine /Colleyville and my question is... I couldn't really tell by
your diagram how close that is to Grapevine High School, and I want to know what
the impact is going to be, especially on the student athletes during the construction
phase?
o WD The distance is 841 ft. from the proposed well to the edge of Grapevine
High School. Their ball fields are between the edge of the school and the
south side of SH 26... what are the impacts? I don't know that there would
be any impacts. I would think during drilling and the completion activity, there
would be more machinery out there and some noise, there could be noise
impacts but then the traffic flow on SH 26 is in excess of 35,000 vehicles a
day that go by there. I would struggle to find that there would be some type of
impact from this activity in this already established industrial area upon the
campus at Grapevine High School.
What about any air quality monitoring once the rig is in place?
o Typically some air quality monitoring sampling can be done at any given
site. At gasoline stations or any sites that operate under the regulations of the
TCEQ so certain sampling can be done to determine the ambient air
constituents.
Since this is within the less than 1000 feet, do you have to get special
permission from the City of Southlake or the City of Grapevine?
There's a jurisdictional boundary between the City of Southlake and the City
of Grapevine. The site is on the north side of SH 26. 1 don't know of any
mechanism in place, whether I was putting in a Jack in the Box or a gas
station or a car lot at this that would have to comply or have to fit in with the
regulations of another city, however, that doesn't mean we don't involve that
city with what we are doing. I have had conversations and correspondence
with key personnel in the City of Grapevine about this project.
So you don't need their approval, it's more Southlake since it's on
their side?
I do need the approval from the City of Southlake. There is not a mechanism
in place for someone to have to go to the City of Grapevine for that type of
approval.
1 just think that if it was within 1000 ft of one of the Southlake schools,
I don't know that it would be allowed. If there happened to be an
emergency involving the first responders, are they going to have
something in place for the school? Different from the evacuation plan
that they have in place?
That would be something that we could certainly work with the Grapevine
ISD. I think it's the school's primary responsibility to ensure the safety of the
students on their campus. Would you not agree?
1 do but I believe this would be a special circumstance to have to deal
with.
o Perhaps there is a special circumstance but there is also an existing condition
here with a great deal of traffic on this road and an existing petroleum storage
facility across the street. I don't know if Grapevine ISD is prepared for an
emergency event of something happening there, do you? We are prepared
to work with them on any type of evacuation procedures. This is something I
would like to talk to them about. I can't tell them how to evacuate their school
but it is something that we feel they are professional in doing to protect their
students.
1 just think it's a different situation that needs to be addressed.
o RS with respect to the pipeline, we'll be working with any cities that are
contiguous to the pipeline to make sure all first responders are involved in the
process.
I am a Colleyville resident and we are all neighbors, we shop and trade and share
school districts. I've heard there's a green completion to the drill site. Can you say
what that entails and whether these sites in Southlake would be completed in a
green manner?
WD I'm not sure. I have been involved with Ft. Worth in revisions of their
gas well ordinance twice. Ft. Worth is fairly progressive and had addressed
the green completion issue and I'm not sure we actually came up with a
definition for green completions. There is not an industry definition for green
completion. From when industry first started the completion process for these
gas wells... they were vented to the atmosphere for many days at a time until
a great deal of the water introduced during the frac process came back to the
surface. What we realized is while you're doing that, you're also venting to
the atmosphere and so we feel like we have identified a way to better
complete the wells by minimizing the time in which the well is flowing back to
the surface. I don't know of any equipment that is readily available to industry
at this point to have this entirely enclosed system at the point which we start
flowing back the well and that is the point after the well is fraced and the
formation is energized and you have gas, water and sand coming back to the
surface. The water, sand and gas are put into a frac tank and at that moment
at which we can turn the gas into a sales line, we do it.
So that doesn't have anything to do with the VOC's being released?
Yes, I guess in a way it does. Methane is one of the VOC's, and one of the
products that we sell.
There are other VOC's people are feeling the effects of in Flower
Mound. That is what I am speaking of. Can you speak to the risk of
VOC's being released?
o Yes, VOC's are regulated by the TCEQ and it is something that they have
defined. Not only VOC's but some of the constituents in the VOC's that are
specifically regulated and that are limited in their release into the atmosphere
and at some point they must be stopped.
Whose job is it to inspect for the release?
0 It's a dual role with industry and TCEQ inspectors.
I viewed the oil and gas 411 website that was provided by the city and there was a
direct link to the CDC and it stated that Benzene is flammable and long -term
exposure causes leukemia. I thought about what if we are having a BBQ and there is
an explosion. It said if you're exposed and you're inside, go outside and if you're
outside, move away. Well, since I live here, where will I go to? Where will our
children go to? Why are we even considering this in such a densely populated area?
Why are we not being good neighbors to Grapevine?
o There would only be ignition if there was enough of any kind of gas in a
concentration to where it could ignite and that would have to be something at
a lower explosive limit that is in the neighborhood of 11 to 13% of the
atmosphere. I think there's no possible way for that amount of gas to saturate
the atmosphere to the point of explosion.
Are you going to provide Benzene detectors throughout this site to
make sure we don't run into any problems?
o Someone asked that question earlier... air sampling is something that can
give us a very clear idea of the potential for this site to produce any kind of
VOC's or Benzene that would be of a concern to the safety of the neighbors.
To clarify, exactly how much Benzene is released into the atmosphere relative to
your work?
o As I indicated earlier in what we are calling this core area of Denton, Wise
and Tarrant County, and how that part of the Barnett is called a dry gas area.
The reason it's a dry gas is because we monitor not only our wells but other
operator's wells and the pipeline companies that buy gas have gas analysis
from every well that they are buying gas from and they identify the properties
of the gas from each one of those wells. The gas from the core area is dry.
The primary source for Benzene is condensate or a liquid hydrocarbon. It's
much lighter than crude oil. The amount of Benzene that is found in a typical
Barnett Shale gas well in this area is around one part per million. Putting that
in a frame of reference the gasoline that you put into your car has around
1 Benzene by volume which is about 10,000 parts per million. I believe that
this should speak for itself. We are concerned and know what we are
producing and it is assured by these well site analysis tests.
Are you not required by state or federal standards to monitor air
quality at the site of the well during construction and after
construction? In effect, is that the responsibility of the EPA to come
by every so often or the state environmental quality board to test it but
it's not your responsibility to test it?
o I'm not aware of a requirement to run ambient air testing before construction
and after construction. But we must ensure that we do not exceed the
thresholds set by TCEQ for the emissions from any of these facilities. Right
now the TCEQ is revising all of their thresholds and reporting requirements
and probably by late Summer or early Fall a new rule will be out on those
requirements. Not only on the gas industry but for any industry to be required
to follow. We would have to ensure that we do not exceed those thresholds
and that's done with infrared cameras and other types of ambient air testing
and monitoring equipment.
And that would be done at point of certification of the well. In other
words, you would have to certify that the well was complete and you
would have to take those tests and then everybody would leave and
then unless somebody comes back from state or federal, let's say a
year later... so is there any other testing that goes on as a regular
requirement? It's important because they need to know that the state
and federal agencies have fallen asleep on the job in monitoring air
quality so it's important that they feel comfortable in whether they are
testing or not that you're holding your own self responsible to test it in
being a good neighbor to them?
o So the question is, after the well is completed, we identify what the potential
for emission is and we would monitor the production of the well which would
tell us what our emissions are going to be and at any point that we would get
close to that threshold that we would exceed regulatory requirements, then
we must do something for the emissions abatement.
What do you do with the waste water since you aren't required the pits
or whatever? You're taking it off site and dumping it somewhere. Can
you explain to everyone where you are dumping it and how?
The production facilities I have shown and the green tanks show how the
water produced from these wells is contained in steel tanks. On a periodic
basis, a contract water hauler is on a routine to come by these sites and take
the water to an approved disposal facility. This is not water that is dumped on
the ground or unfortunately at this time it is not recycled. It is disposed in a
regulated disposal facility, similar to what is used in other oil and gas basins
and other chemical industries as well.
It may be helpful for you to provide at a later date, who you use so
people can evaluate that.
When you have the pipeline in the ground and it looks like it comes
up, do you dig a hold and keep it going lateral horizontally?
RS The way the profile will look is that we will do a drill, then do another
section, and where they intersect, we will excavate down about 4 to 5 feet
and do a tie -in right there.
I'm a Grapevine parent and I am very concerned. My daughter is in band and she
stays outside practicing in the Summer for a minimum of 4 hours a day and so I'm
very concerned about air quality. Does XTO currently have any agreement in place
with the City of Southlake for air quality monitoring at the pad site? And, any vapor
recovery system? Also, when you do find something that is over the limit for air
quality, is it self- monitoring by XTO or what exactly happens if you find something
that exceeds the EPA standards for clean air?
o WD the answer to your first question is that no, there is not a specific
agreement in place with the City of Southlake for monitoring and as Ms.
Minder pointed out, we are in the initial phases of providing the zoning case
and application to the city. We had discussed with staff and other members of
the city that yes, certain air monitoring can be done at different times during
the phases of our operation.
Can we request that it be done during the heat of the Summer?
Yes, that could certainly be done. I think that timing on this needs to be
considered with staff for either prior to or a certain operation has taken place.
On vapor recovery units, I think that that also is something that is a
supplement or another tool besides vapor suppression and that's something
that gas stations use. Not all gas stations have vapor recovery units.
Not all of them are next to high schools where people are practicing.
A vapor recovery unit is most effective when there is a volume of rich gas that
can be recovered and returned into the system. But you have to have the rich
gas to help make the vapor recovery unit work. Who's keeping track of any
gas that is released? It's us and any other regulatory agency that oversee our
activity that may show up at any one given time and want to see what type or
amount of emissions we have. It is our responsibility to ensure that we do not
exceed those thresholds for VOC's.
The City of Ft. Worth just completed their ordinance and they are
requiring green completions to capture Methane and VOC's. During
the well completions, is that something that will be discussed with
Southlake?
o That is certainly something I think that's actually a consideration the City of
Southlake will have. I can't speak for them but it's also somewhat built into
the ordinance and the operating requirements.
I'm a resident of Colleyville, I will start by saying that I have worked for the TCEQ
and have worked for one of the nation's largest petroleum marketers so am very
familiar with this; as a parent of a student at Grapevine High School, I am concerned
about the steps you are taking to protect and mitigate risks to human health and
safety. A number of the parents here have addressed the concerns they have so I
won't dwell on that; I would like to address the emergency response, particularly the
cross -city response teams and the local school district. I realize you are not
responsible for the steps the school is taking but I would like to know what steps you
are taking to work with the local first responders beyond the "train the trainer' training
as well as working with the local school district in perhaps doing some scenario
training, were there to be some spill but more specifically during the actual
construction process were the rig to be approved.
o We would make ourselves available to any of the concerns that school's
public safety officers may have about our activities.
Have you already worked pro actively with anyone from the school district?
o Pro actively is probably not the best description at this point, however, we
have had conversations with them and have had correspondence and I fully
anticipate meetings in the future about this should we go forward here in
Southlake. Yes, we are within a 1000 feet 841 feet as the survey goes but
there are a number of other wells in the Ft. Worth basin that are much less
than 600 feet to nearby schools and we have very good relationships with
those schools and I would say that this has been a very successful
relationship without any impact to the kids in those schools.
RS once the pipeline route is finalized, we will be reviewing with the cities
and any other appropriate key stakeholders as well actually where as built to
the pipeline is to make sure they are aware of where it is located. Our
operations group usually comes out and they will establish a process
interactive where they will talk about the pipeline and what is expected in
terms of an incident should there be one and how it should be handled. We
wait and do that more towards the end of construction before the pipeline
goes into service. We will have a list of key stakeholders put together that we
will meet with to ensure there is one like -mind in terms of an event that first
responders need to be called out so we will all be on the same page. This is
done on an annual basis.
With regard to notification, I know you've done quite a bit of
notification to residents in the City of Southlake, have you notified
anyone that is down stream of that location? I know that there are a
number of lower socio- economic communities that are down stream
of the facility.
WD —Would you please define down stream?
Adjacent to the Grapevine High School area, there is a mobile home
park, some apartments, some very high density housing. Have you
notified any of the residents in that particular proximity?
No maam
RS with respect to the pipeline, we are going in and out of the City of
Southlake. We will have the same type venue here in Colleyville, Westlake
and some other cities as well. We will have the same type of process with
them when we submit our permit applications.
WD I'm curious, what was your job function with the TCEQ?
1 worked particularly for the Commissioner's Office, heading their
media and public affairs and I did the same thing for a large oil refiner
and marketer and am actually very familiar with the tank farm facility
having been involved with first response at those facilities.
And when did you leave TCEQ?
1 have been gone for a number of years but I'm very familiar with that
facility.
1 live on Randol Mill, right next to the pipeline. I remember seeing that there was a
petroleum tank farm right next to the well site. Don't they store millions of gallons of
gasoline there?
o Yes sir
So maybe Grapevine High School should have thought about that
before they build that high school there. I would think that would be a
lot more dangerous than a clean natural gas well.
You said your geologists said that there is probably no chance of an earthquake in
the DFW area... how long ago was that?
I want to clarify what we were talking about and the discussion had to do
strictly with the drilling of the Barnett Shale gas wells to approximately 7300
feet. It did not involve the disposal wells that go into a deeper formation... the
Ellenberger. That means that the Barnett Shale is shallower than the
Ellenberger in that they believe that there was not a relationship between the
drilling into the Barnett Shale that had an impact or a cause and effect ratio
with the earthquakes.
How long ago was that opinion given?
Just a matter of months ago.
So it was after the quakes that occurred in DFW a year or two ago?
It was after that, sir.
1 am president of the North Central Texas Communities Alliance and we are an
organization of individuals and organizations and communities within the Barnett
Shale area. As you know, in Ft. Worth we've been faced with some similar problems
and I just want to know two things are you willing to do a baseline test before you
get started to see what the air and water quality status is in the areas where you plan
to lay the pipeline?
o RS in terms of the pipeline, we will not be doing any baseline studies with
regard to where the pipeline is located because the pipeline is self- contained
and enclosed so there would not be any need to any air studies done. The
transportation of the gas would be inside the pipeline.
Pipelines are known to also have leak problems and vapor recovery
problems. I am asking in general if in the area, would you be willing to
do an air quality baseline study before you began any operations?
Specific to this pipeline here, there wouldn't be a need for us to do that.
How large is the pipeline that is going to run under the water source,
the stream?
What water source are you referring to?
I believe you are going underneath the Bear Creek.
That segment of the pipeline will be 12 inches in diameter. Once we have the
opportunity to lay our drill profile, we could be anywhere from 10 to 15 foot
deep up to as much as 30 foot deep. We won't know that until we have a
chance to go out there and gather data and see how deep we need to go.
Our objective is to be as deep as possible to get far below the trees and
stream.
Do you have an alternative route?
Most pipelines are buried... an option would be to go above ground and that
is not the way we want to go.
Is there an alternative route besides going close to the school? Have
you researched any options?
We route the pipeline along road corridors and open spaces. This is the best
route along SH26 that exits from the well pad and moves westerly.
1 was wondering how long the pipeline would be underground and how long it will be
in use?
o The pipeline will be there in perpetuity. It will be used as long as the well
produces.
Patty Minder gave conclusionary remarks... meeting adjourned.
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