1999-12-09 * * OFFICIAL MINUTES * *
APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 CITY OF SOUTHLAKE
2 JUC -JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEETING
3
4 December 9, 1999
5
6 MINUTES
7
8
9 Committee Members Present: Gary Fawks, Chair and City Council Representative; Jerry
10 Lawrence, Vice Chair and CISD Representative; Patsy DuPre, City Council
11 Representative; Steve Harold, CISD Representative; John Rollins, CISD Appointed
12 Citizen; James Glover, Parks and Recreation Board Representative; Wendi Carlucci, City
13 Council Appointed Citizen.
14
15 Committee Members Absent: None
16
17 Staff Members Present: Steve Polasek, Deputy Director of Community Services for the City
18 of Southlake; Dr. Ted Gillum, CISD Superintendent; Brent Kline, Total Program
19 Management (Capital Project Consultant for CISD); Steve Moore, Recreation Supervisor
20 for the City of Southlake.
21
22
23 Agenda Item No. 1, Call to Order - The meeting was called to order by Chair Gary Fawks at
24 6:04 p.m.
25
26 Agenda Item No. 4, Joint Use Natatorium. - This item was moved up on the agenda. Mr.
27 Kline updated the group on the concerns that the swim parents had at the Monday meeting.
28 He stated that they then took those concerns and attempted to integrate as many of them into
29 the plan within budget. He said that the parents main concerns were deck space, restrooms,
30 and seating capacity. He added that the natatorium appears to be within the square footage
31 and budget requirements of the original plan and that there is now one pool with a bulkhead
32 separating it rather than two (2) separate pools. He also said that the parents wanted a seven
33 foot (7') bulkhead rather than a four foot (4') bulkhead.
34
35 Mr. Lawrence asked about the depth of the pool. Mr. Kline replied that the depth of the
36 shallow end would be about four feet (4') out to about five and one -half feet (5 %2') from a
37 distance of approximately fourteen feet (14') out from the deck; and, perhaps it may be a
38 little farther than fourteen feet (14') out in order to prevent the bulkhead from dragging on
39 the bottom. Mr. Kline stated that the main issue with the shallow end is to have enough
40 space in order to do community programming. Mr. Polasek said that there needs to be
41 twenty -one feet (21') at a four -foot (4') depth.
42
43 Ms. DuPre asked about steps into the pool. Mr. Kline said that there is a ramp into the pool
44 for handicap access and a lift on the other end. Ms. DuPre asked how swim lessons would be
45 conducted for the smaller children due to the depth of the pool. Mr. Polasek explained that
46 they are conducted on a swim gym apparatus for smaller children.
47
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, December 9, 1999. Page 1 of 13
N:IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes112- 9- 99..doc
* * OFFICIAL MINUTES * *
APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 Ms. DuPre also asked about the presence of water volleyball holes. Mr. Polasek said that he
2 did not believe they could be installed on the decks due to the length and width of the
3 proposed pool.
4
5 Mr. Kline explained the situation with the flags for the pool. He said that flags are needed in
6 order to indicate to the swimmers that the wall is approaching during the backstroke. He
7 added that the problem would probably be handled by installing a rigging from the ceiling
8 rather than placing a pole in the water. Mr. Lawrence stated that the flags at the other pools
9 he had seen were attached to the bulkheads.
10
11 Mr. Kline presented the parts that were integrated from the original plan. He stated that the
12 parents had wanted fifteen foot (15') decks all the way around. He also said that the parents
13 had wanted twenty (20) showerheads and there would be twelve (12). He added that the
14 parents had wanted seating in the upper deck at two (2) locations but at that height it is
15 impossible to see the water so the parents opted out which lowered the number of seats and
16 reduced the need for some of the restrooms.
17
18 Mr. Fawks asked if some of the restrooms could be upstairs. Mr. Kline stated that it was
19 more economical to have them on the ground floor. Mr. Fawks said that that made sense but
20 it might free up some space for the weight room and multipurpose room. Mr. Kline stated
21 that from the input at the SPIN meeting the equipment room and weight room had been slid
22 down to the corner which reduces the needed length for the road that went to FM 1709 which
23 will also save money.
24
25 Mr. Kline also indicated that there would be double doors and the restrooms had been
26 designed to use space more efficiently.
27
28 Mr. Fawks said that the questions he had been asked concerned whether or not the pool
29 would be the same size and that the way he understood it the pool would have the same space
30 only it was now a divided single pool rather than two (2) separate pools.
31
32 Mr. Glover stated that from the Parks Board standpoint the second bulkhead is a key element
33 in order to permit several activities to go on at the same point and should be a requirement
34 rather than optional.
35
36 Mr. Kline said that the natatorium facility in Carrollton doubles up the big float and uses
37 wave - arresters in order to eliminate the waves which reduces the need for the second
38 bulkhead.
39
40 Mr. Fawks asked about the cost of a bulkhead.
41
42 Mr. Kline stated that the four foot (4') model would be $100,000.00 and that the seven foot
43 (7') type would be around $200,000.00. Mr. Harold asked which would be the alternate if
44 there is not enough money to purchase both bulkheads. Mr. Kline stated that they were
45 having them priced separately and that the decision would be made when the time came.
46
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, December 9, 1999. Page 2 of 13
N: (Parks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes112- 9- 99..doc
* * OFFICIAL MINUTES * *
APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 Ms. DuPre said that the final price would not be set until May. Mr. Kline explained that
2 right now the plans are schematics and that they can't get the Guaranteed Maximum Price
3 (GMP) until they have gone through the construction documents and then get prices and the
4 Guaranteed Maximum Price (GMP) signed. Mr. Kline expressed that the hope was to get the
5 conclusion on the schematics by Monday, December 13, 1999 in order to move forward.
6
7 Ms. DuPre asked if the meeting with the swim parents had answered their questions. Mr.
8 Polasek said that the current discussions are a result of the feedback from the meeting.
9
10 Mr. Glover stated that as a citizen he would have a hard time envisioning the pool working
11 without another bulkhead. Mr. Fawks added that if it became necessary user fees could be
12 used to cover the cost of the bulkhead. Mr. Kline added that a second bulkhead is currently
13 listed as an alternate item, and that if cost savings exist, it will be constructed. Mr. Fawks
14 replied that the plans should include the installation of the second bulkhead, and the City
15 could possibly step up again with financing to complete the project if necessary.
16
17 Mr. Kline mentioned that the seven foot (7') bulkhead increased the cost from the initial
18 budget. Mr. Glover stated that the second bulkhead will help convince the average citizen
19 that the natatorium is constructed to accommodate community use.
20
21 Mr. Harold asked about the priority of using a seven foot (7') bulkhead instead of using two
22 foot (2') or four foot (4') bulkheads. Ms. DuPre asked about the differences between the size
23 of the bulkheads. Mr. Lawrence said that the stability of the wall is the issue in regards to the
24 size of the bulkhead.
25
26 Mr. Gillum stated that if the budget is an issue and two (2) bulkheads are necessary, it would
27 be best to proceed with the four foot (4') bulkheads at $200,000 versus one seven foot (7')
28 bulkhead at the same price. Mr. Gillum added that while this alternative may not be optimal,
29 the design would be effective.
30
31 Mr. Glover said that at the meeting with the swim parents they prioritized what would be
32 taken out in order to have the two (2) bulkheads, and added that the proposed reduction
33 alternatives were to remove the weight room and reduce the size of the warm -up area by a
34 couple of feet. Mr. Glover stated that the removal of the weight room provides for a large
35 cost reduction. Mr. Lawrence stated that he would not want to see the removal of the weight
36 room, as that would be space that could not be reclaimed in the future.
37
38 Mr. Harold asked about the platform. Mr. Kline said that it has never been drawn into the
39 plans, however the building would be tall enough to accommodate it, and that the structure
40 would add another $100,000 to the project.
41
42 Mr. Fawks said that for the scoreboards and associated items corporate sponsorships would
43 be a good option much like what the Southlake Baseball Association had done. Mr. Kline
44 said that his only concern was the manner in which the motion is worded regarding whatever
45 money is raised goes back to the City if it is under $1.25 million. Mr. Lawrence followed
46 that the wording of the SPDC motion forwards all funds raised under $1.25 million back to
47 SPDC, and that it is unlikely that raising over $1.25 million is possible, therefore there is a
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, December 9, 1999. Page 3 of 13
N: (Parks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutesl12- 9- 99..doc
* * OFFICIAL MINUTES * *
APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 great disincentive to look for sponsorship of smaller items. Mr. Harold stated that as long as
2 the capability exists to add features to the facility, raising money through sponsorships is
3 possible in the future.
4
5 Mr. Harold stated that another concern that was raised at the SPIN meeting was the parking
6 out front and kids running in and out. Mr. Kline explained that what had been discussed was
7 placing a drop -off point in the parking lot.
8
9 Mr. Lawrence asked about where the HVAC would be going. Mr. Kline stated that current
10 plans discuss putting a unit on top of the stair tower that would branch out on the roof with
11 two (2) units total. One of the units would be for the duct -work and the other for the pool air.
12 Mr. Lawrence said that it was the same brand that is used at the Carrollton/ Farmers Branch
13 facility. Mr. Kline said that the engineers hadn't worked out all the duct -work yet, but that it
14 would be a roof - mounted system, and that there would also be an equipment courtyard.
15
16 Ms. DuPre asked if the courtyard would be enclosed by an outside brick wall, and Mr. Kline
17 replied that the outside wall would be brick.
18
19 Mr. Lawrence asked if there would be a surge tank. Mr. Kline said that there would not be
20 one and that the Carrollton /Farmers Branch facility had one because of the way the sewer
21 system is around there. Mr. Lawrence asked if all the overflow water would then be going
22 into the sewer. Mr. Kline said that when there was overflow due to the number of people in
23 the pool, that would be when a certain amount of water would be taken from the pool and
24 then released slowly.
25
26 Mr. Harold asked about the noise of the mechanical equipment. Mr. Kline said that no real
27 noise would come from the facility because the pumps were inside the building. Mr. Kline
28 also explained that if there was any lighting for the facility, steps would be taken to keep the
29 length of the poles as short as possible, and that the lights would shine directly on the facility
30 and not into the neighbors yards.
31
32 Mr. Lawrence asked if a representative from the City would be at the Monday, December 13,
33 1999 school board meeting. Mr. Fawks said that they would try to have a representative at
34 the meeting.
35
36 Mr. Harold asked about sidewalk issues that are of interest to the Committee. Mr. Kline said
37 that there was a sidewalk at Johnson Elementary, but that they were trying to get a variance
38 because it would take up the first row of parking. Ms. DuPre asked if they had done
39 something on that issue on Tuesday. Mr. Fawks stated that was on the Durham site plan and
40 what was decided was to defer the sidewalks for the schools until the trail system gets to the
41 sites. Ms. DuPre said that wasn't done for the middle school.
42
43 Mr. Kline added that tonight with the Planning and Zoning Commission, they were taking
44 the proposal of putting sidewalks all down Carroll, but instead of putting it in the parking lot
45 they would take it right up to the building and then out the other side.
46
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, December 9, 1999. Page 4 of 13
N. (Parks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes112- 9- 99..doc
* * OFFICIAL MINUTES * *
APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 Mr. Fawks stated that he did not want to speak for the City Council, but that it seems as if
2 they are comfortable with deferring construction of sidewalks until the Trail System comes
3 on -line in the vicinity. Mr. Fawks followed that in the past the only group where this had
4 occurred was for a church, as that this kind of deferment was not practical for developers.
5
6 Mr. Lawrence said that developers can pass the cost of the sidewalks on but schools cannot,
7 and cited as an example the Johnson Elementary addition, where the cost of sidewalks was
8 not figured into the bonds required. Mr. Harold suggested that there ought to be an
9 agreement in writing that alerts the need to budget for the sidewalk requirements in the future
10 to both the School Board and the City Council members.
11
12 Mr. Fawks added that the Council put in the motion that the sidewalks would be deferred
13 until the trail system was implemented. Mr. Fawks also commented that SPDC has allocated
14 $300,000.00 for trails in the Parks Capital Improvements Plan (CIP), and that there would be
15 a four million dollar ($4,000,000) million bond allocation for trail construction.
16
17 Regarding the natatorium, Mr. Harold asked if plumbing would be ran from the restrooms to
18 the little bathroom off of the office. Mr. Kline said that they could remove the plumbing, but
19 recommends that a separate space should be left for the coaches to have a place to change.
20
21 Ms. DuPre asked if all of this would be brick outside. Mr. Kline said that it would be brick
22 and EFS, and would tie into the look of Carroll High School.
23
24 Mr. Fawks stated that separate from the building issue, the Committee should discuss the
25 motion from SPDC. Mr. Fawks added that his perception of the motion was that the intent
26 was that SPDC had a willingness to shuffle things around and give the school district the
27 funding they needed to move forward, however if money could be raised in any other way,
28 then those proceeds should be used for the natatorium construction, and the SPDC money
29 could be reallocated to other projects.
30
31 Mr. Lawrence agreed that that was the intent but what the effect is that whatever money is
32 raised does not add to what the project is. Ms. DuPre said that maybe the Committee can
33 discuss with SPDC the possibility of raising money and keeping a portion of the funds.
34
35 Mr. Fawks stated that his concern would be that if the Committee goes back to SPDC now
36 and states a desire to keep a portion of the raised funds, then it would be going back on the
37 commitment that was made to SPDC. Ms. DuPre stated the need for the school board to
38 have a corporate sponsorship seeking committee. Mr. Lawrence said that they were going to
39 do that, but what the swim parents or whoever else raises money needs to realize is that the
40 funds will not go to enhance the natatorium. Mr. Harold stated that the school district is
41 committed to SPDC to try and raise funds.
42
43 Ms. DuPre asked if the user fees would work like the tennis center fees. Mr. Lawrence said
44 that they envisioned the fees would only go to cover operations, but that club fees would be
45 higher. Mr. Harold stated it would work like a toll road, with the user fees covering
46 operations and maintenance while deferring part of the additional cost of use.
47
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, December 9, 1999. Page 5 of 13
N: (Parks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes112- 9- 99..doc
* * OFFICIAL MINUTES * *
APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 Mr. Fawks said that he knew that the school was committed to the SPDC motion, but that he
2 did not know if funds raised by outside groups would have to go back to SPDC.
3
4 Mr. Rollins inquired about the possible scenarios should the cost of the project continue to
5 escalate. Mr. Harold stated that they were using Construction Managers at Risk and that they
6 came up with the number of $6.7 million with a good commitment from them that this
7 amount would provide the community with the pool they want. Mr. Lawrence said that they
8 factored in inflation and that the construction company chosen was the best in the state for
9 this type of project.
10
11 Mr. Fawks stated that if the cost continues to rise significantly then downsizing would have
12 to occur, which would reduce the opportunity for joint use, and therefore SPDC interest. Mr.
13 Fawks mentioned that at such a point there would have to be discussions of an additional
14 bond election.
15
16 Agenda Item No. 2, Administrative Comments — Mr. Polasek informed the group on the
17 status of the joint use agreements, and stated that they would have several attachments and
18 exhibits and he would bring those to the committee in January. Mr. Polasek added that the
19 staff was working on the interlocal agreement for the natatorium, and indicated that this item
20 wasn't as far along as the other agreements, and that staff has been looking for other
21 examples from around the state. Mr. Polasek said that those items would be brought before
22 the committee in February.
23
24 Mr. Harold asked if the natatorium would be an addendum to the agreement for joint use. He
25 also asked if this agreement was an agenda item before the school board that night. Mr.
26 Polasek answered that Steve Johnson had indicated to him that he was going to run the
27 version that they had been working on together before the board as an informational item, but
28 the agreement is proceeding to be drafted on a joint basis.
29
30 Mr. Fawks mentioned that the agreement draft needs to go through the Committee first
31 before it moves on and he asked if it was premature to draw up a joint use schedule for the
32 natatorium at this time.
33
34 Mr. Polasek stated that the process for developing the inter -local agreement for the
35 natatorium was going to take quite awhile and right now staff is working on the background
36 information and building a base to work from.
37
38 Mr. Glover pointed out that the joint use agreement at the natatorium would be more
39 complex because it deals with a staffed facility, and added that details on the sharing of the
40 staff would have to be worked out. Ms. Carlucci asked if the swim teams had their own
41 people. Mr. Glover answered that they do, however they do the scoring and other
42 miscellaneous functions, but are not involved in the operations of the facility. Mr. Lawrence
43 indicated that at the Carrollton site that the swim coach also runs the facility as part of his
44 job.
45
46 Mr. Polasek stated that the staff was fairly far along in the revised joint use agreement
47 process and the hardest part has been getting the site maps and attachments together.
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, December 9, 1999. Page 6 of 13
N: (Parks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes112- 9- 99..doc
* * OFFICIAL MINUTES * *
APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1
2 Mr. Polasek announced that Parks and Recreation Board Chair Sheri Berman has asked if the
3 Committee is interested in having a joint meeting with the Parks Board in order to review
4 projects and set some goals for the new year. Mr. Fawks indicated that he thought that would
5 be a good idea.
6
7 Mr. Lawrence asked about the agenda that she had envisioned for the meeting. Mr. Polasek
8 said that one item of interest is the joint use potential in all of the new schools and city
9 facilities coming on -line.
10
11 Mr. Glover also said that he would like to see an agenda before they agree to the meeting.
12 Mr. Fawks said that he would speak to Ms. Berman before the next meeting and report back
13 to the committee in January.
14
15 Mr. Polasek updated the group on the status of the two (2) gyms that the committee had
16 discussed using at the last meeting in order to accommodate the one hundred and fifty (150)
17 additional registrants for the basketball league. Mr. Lawrence asked if they were able to get
18 all of the one hundred and fifty (150) kids playing.
19
20 Mr. Polasek said that they were able to accommodate everyone, and that Recreation
21 Supervisor Steve Moore has worked with Mr. Bob Ledbetter to work out the schedules. Mr.
22 Polasek stated that Mr. Moore was going to update the group on how it had all worked out
23 and any issues that were outstanding.
24
25 Mr. Moore thanked the committee for giving them the opportunity to use those gyms and get
26 the additional one hundred and fifty (150) kids playing basketball. Mr. Moore said that the
27 gym at Johnson Elementary has allowed the league to play another ten (10) to twelve (12)
28 games on the weekend.
29
30 Ms. Carlucci asked which other school gym that they had used.
31
32 Mr. Moore answered that it was Carroll Elementary and that he had looked at the facility and
33 it wasn't really conducive to the program's needs. Mr. Moore further replied that it was too
34 small, there is no room for seating, and as far as practices go there would be serious control
35 problems. Mr. Moore added that Johnson is not a practice facility because of control
36 problems associated with the gym equipment.
37
38 Mr. Polasek asked where gym equipment is stored during the game at Johnson Elementary.
39 Mr. Moore said that the equipment was stored in one of the rest rooms and the door is
40 locked, and added that in that case the outside hall rest rooms were used.
41
42 Ms. DuPre said that she understood the situation that staff was having with the control issue
43 at the gym and that she had asked the superintendent if the equipment could be relocated to
44 another room so that the rest rooms could be used. Ms. DuPre asked if the equipment at
45 Carroll Elementary was not able to be moved because of the type of equipment. Mr. Moore
46 stated that he was unsure which types of physical education equipment was used at Carroll
47 Elementary.
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, December 9, 1999. Page 7 of 13
N :\Parks & RecreationlCOMITEESIJUCIMINUTES199 minutes112- 9- 99..doc
* * OFFICIAL MINUTES * *
APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1
2 Ms. DuPre said that it couldn't be too complicated to move the equipment down to the
3 Spanish room, and asked if they were told that they could not use the rest rooms at the
4 Carroll gym to store equipment. Mr. Moore said that they were not told this, however it
5 would be too difficult to use the rest rooms for storage because two (2) people would have to
6 be in the hall to monitor the children.
7
8 Ms. DuPre stated that the City cannot use Carroll Junior High because they have free access
9 to the school, but asked why the City cannot use Carroll Elementary, which has the gates and
10 the rest rooms are right outside the gym.
11
12 Mr. Moore said that he is concerned that if staff relaxes for even one moment, that the
13 children will be down the hall way and getting into other areas of the school.
14
15 Ms. DuPre said that there is a need to get a message to the parents explaining why the Carroll
16 Elementary gym is not being used, as there are currently four (4) teams that are having to
17 practice at the same time.
18
19 Mr. Fawks said that today it is cold, but with the variance of weather asked if the City could
20 utilize the outdoor courts at Bicentennial Park. Mr. Polasek indicated that those courts are
21 not lighted. Ms. DuPre asked why the restrooms are not available at the Carroll Elementary
22 gym. Mr. Moore added that Johnson has a gate. Ms. DuPre indicated that Carroll also has a
23 gate. Mr. Fawks stated that he could see why the school district would be reluctant to open
24 any school to traffic.
25
26 Mr. Glover added that he was sympathetic, being a coach for in -line hockey, to Mr. Moore's
27 plight in trying to control the siblings of those children that are playing. Ms. DuPre said that
28 is why she was asking if the gym teacher could move the equipment out to the Spanish room
29 and put the gate down on the hallway at Carroll Elementary. Mr. Fawks said that if that was
30 the issue then he thought it could be taken care of.
31
32 Mr. Lawrence asked Mr. Moore what it was that he needed or was requesting in order to use
33 these facilities. Mr. Polasek stated that Mr. Moore didn't come here to make any requests at
34 this point but rather to provide information. Mr. Polasek stated that the staff is attempting to
35 do a few different things, and added that one item is sending a letter to the parents explaining
36 the issues that were faced this year, and that they are temporary in nature. Mr. Polasek also
37 stated that in January the schedule was going to be revised so that each team will not always
38 be at the same gym. Mr. Polasek stated that if the City does use Carroll Elementary, it would
39 be as a practice facility only during the weekdays.
40
41 Ms. DuPre said that the feeling she was getting from the parents is that they think that
42 someone doesn't know what is going on. Ms. DuPre indicated that the six (6) and under
43 group was playing at Rockenbaugh Elementary and the ten (10) and under group plays at
44 Johnson Elementary. Ms. DuPre also stated that due to the smallness of Johnson the scoring
45 table was sticking out onto the court, and added that the parents were wondering why not
46 switch out the groups at the two (2) gyms because of their sizes. Ms. DuPre added that
47 another concern she had heard was about the four (4) teams practicing at once, and stressed
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, December 9, 1999. Page 8 of 13
N:IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes112- 9- 99..doc
* * OFFICIAL MINUTES * *
APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 that at the last meeting the Committee did state that they would use Carroll Elementary and
2 that there had been a concerned parent at the meeting.
3
4 Mr. Polasek said that he thought that staff could go back and see what can be done to use
5 Carroll Elementary for practice, and stated that he had asked Mr. Moore to measure the
6 width of the gyms, and both were the same at thirty -four feet (34'); however Rockenbaugh
7 was fourteen feet (14') longer.
8
9 Mr. Lawrence said that the impression he had from the last meeting was that they needed
10 more gyms for games so we said here's Carroll and Johnson and now we are not using
11 Carroll. He indicated that his first question would be do we need more practice space.
12
13 Mr. Polasek indicated that they had four (4) teams practicing on one court in past years and
14 staff had no previous indication that this was not adequate. Mr. Polasek also added that Ms.
15 DuPre has since brought to staff's attention the dissatisfaction of some of the parents.
16
17 Mr. Harold asked how many parents had made complaints. Ms. DuPre indicated that several
18 parents had asked her and she told them about the situation with Carroll Middle School. Ms.
19 DuPre asked if it is possible to share in the cost of the retractable gates at the junior high in
20 order to deal with the security issues. Mr. Polasek indicated that it was his understanding
21 that the fire department did not want gates installed due to safety issues.
22
23 Mr. Fawks stated that if the school district has made these facilities available to the City, it
24 would be in the best interest of the City to utilize them. Mr. Polasek said that he would work
25 with Coach Ledbetter and Steve Moore to free up some practice space and rotate the games.
26
27 Mr. Glover added that he speaks for the Parks and Recreation Board as well when he states
28 that the staff had been tasked with not turning away any kids and that he wanted to thank
29 them for their efforts.
30
31 Consider:
32
33 Agenda Item No. 3, Approval of the minutes from the November 11, 1999 Meeting- Motion
34 was made to approve the November 11, 1999 meeting minutes.
35
36 Motion: Harold
37 Second: Lawrence
38 Ayes: DuPre, Harold, Rollins, Glover, Carlucci
39 Nayes: None
40 Approved: 7 -0
41
42 Discussion:
43
44 Agenda Item No. 4, Joint Use Natatorium. - This item was moved up on the agenda.
45
46 Agenda Item No. 5, Update on SPIN meetings (Natatorium, Kimball school sites, Stadium).
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, December 9, 1999. Page 9 of 13
N:IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutesl12- 9- 99..doc
* * OFFICIAL MINUTES * *
APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 Mr. Harold indicated that Brent Kline had covered most of it but he would update the group
2 as well. He said at the November 29, 1999 meeting for SPIN #13 and #16 addressed the
3 neighborhood concerns about the natatorium. He listed their concerns about the drop -off site
4 for the children, the fire road having one (1) cut instead of two (2), the dumpster at the high
5 school will serve as the site for the trash, and the adequacy of parking when there is a big
6 swim meet.
7
8 Mr. Lawrence said that Carrollton/Farmers Branch has five hundred (500) seats and they
9 have big meets with three (3) 5A schools and there is enough space, and that Carroll High
10 School is still a 4A school, so he doesn't see parking as much of an issue at this time.
11
12 Mr. Harold also added that the windows on the east will be very high where there is not
13 seating. Mr. Lawrence said that even if there was seating it would not be an issue because
14 the windows would not allow you to look out them, and indicated there had been some
15 concern over the heights of the lighting poles, and concern over the gymnastics facility. Mr.
16 Harold stated that Brent Kline had addressed those issues tonight.
17
18 Mr. Fawks asked him if he found the meetings useful. Mr. Harold said that he thought they
19 were useful, but commented that he was disappointed with the turnout.
20
21 Mr. Harold indicated that the most vocal group at the other SPIN meeting was the
22 Grapevine /Colleyville ISD residents. Mr. Harold stated that their concerns were the road
23 cuts and increased traffic, and mentioned that they expressed concern about the proposed
24 wood fencing.
25
26 Mr. Harold indicated that at this meeting the concerns were over the middle school and
27 intermediate school intersections. Mr. Harold stated that the superintendent would
28 emphasize a staggering between the arrival and release times. Mr. Harold also added that
29 there was issue about drainage and the retention pond.
30
31 Mr. Harold said that another issue that was brought up about the stadium was the lights and
32 the noise at night but only a few events held at the stadium would go very late at night.
33
34 Mr. Fawks asked about the response to the football field behind the Kimball School. Mr.
35 Harold said that there had been some discussion about the lights but not much else.
36
37 Mr. Fawks then asked about the roadway at the school site. Mr. Lawrence said that that issue
38 had not been raised as of late.
39
40 Mr. Harold added that another issue discussed was the orientation of the stadium field and
41 speaker noise.
42
43 Ms. Carlucci asked if anyone had said anything about the astroturf field and injuries. Mr.
44 Lawrence stated that the field would be a new turf with a sand base and fake blades of grass
45 that was made for soccer. Mr. Lawrence indicated that the school district had insisted on it
46 in order to be able to host soccer and that the turf would make the site very marketable for
47 soccer.
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, December 9, 1999. Page 10 of 13
N :\Parks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutesl12- 9- 99..doc
* * OFFICIAL MINUTES * *
APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1
2 Mr. Lawrence also mentioned that the issue of usage will be raised by those who live by the
3 Kimball School but are not in the school district. Mr. Lawrence clarified that these
4 individuals will suffer from the extra traffic and their children can't even attend CISD
5 schools. Mr. Lawrence followed that several of those individuals had asked if the school
6 district could let them into CISD, but the real issue is if the Grapevine /Colleyville ISD
7 releases them, thus lessening their tax rolls. Mr. Lawrence also indicated that one (1)
8 alternative may be to allow them to pay tuition in order to attend CISD schools.
9
10 Mr. Fawks said that several of those residents have come to City Council meetings to express
11 their frustration. Mr. Harold asked if anyone knew what it would take to make the
12 boundaries of the school district equal to those of the city. Mr. Fawks said that it was
13 impossible due to the independence of the entities, and that no school district would be
14 willing to give up property values.
15
16 Agenda Item No. 6 Sidewalk issues- Mr. Harold said that Brent Kline had covered this item
17 earlier.
18
19 Agenda Item No.7, Community Services Update- Mr. Polasek said that he did not have
20 anything to report at this time.
21
22 Agenda Item No. 8, City Project Update- Mr. Polasek updated the group on the road
23 construction projects that had been talked about in the past. He added that Senior Civil
24 Engineer Shawn Poe compiled the information, and that he would respond to any
25 questions that the group had.
26
27 Ms. DuPre stated that she was on the Traffic Management Bond steering committee and
28 if anyone was interested they were meeting in January again to speak with the
29 consultants. Mr. Harold asked if the committee was involved with the Master
30 Thoroughfare Plan, notably the Peytonvillle extension.
31
32 Ms. DuPre said that committee's purpose was to provide the consultants with feedback
33 from the community. Ms. DuPre also informed the Committee that there would now be
34 permissive left turns at intersections in Southlake, and that the Walgreen's Drug Store
35 recently approved was adding a right turn lane on FM 1709 for Peytonville.
36
37 Mr. Lawrence expressed concern about a permissive left from FM 1709 onto Peytonville
38 at the high school. Ms. DuPre said that there would be a permissive left turn at the
39 intersection, however monthly or quarterly accident reports would have to be sent in to
40 TxDOT in order to see if the change would work.
41
42 Mr. Fawks stated that perhaps the light could be engineered to go from the green arrow
43 directly to red during the school hours where peak traffic occurs.
44
45 Agenda Item No. 9, CISD Project Update- Mr. Fawks stated that this was covered earlier.
46
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, December 9, 1999. Page 11 of 13
N:IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutesl12- 9- 99..doc
* * OFFICIAL MINUTES * *
APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 Agenda Item No. 10, Future Joint Use Facilities, Projects, and Goals- Mr. Lawrence asked if
2 the W. Highland project would close the road or limit it. Mr. Fawks said that he had been
3 guaranteed that it would only be limited for 2 '/z months because all they were doing was
4 widening the street to permit right and left turn movements.
5
6 Ms. Carlucci stated that there was also a safety issue with the trees and being able to see.
7 Mr. Fawks said that those trees would be eliminated due to the construction.
8
9 Mr. Harold asked if speed bumps were going to be installed in Coventry. Mr. Fawks stated
10 that the City was going to try three (3) different traffic- calming devices that utilize noise as a
11 speed deterrent.
12
13 Mr. Rollins inquired about where the ideas for the devices were coming from. Mr. Fawks
14 said that the staff had contacted other cities and had researched the subject, but a standing
15 challenge of this project was to find something that works, was cost effective, and yet
16 aesthetically pleasing. Mr. Fawks added that the City Council had denied the amendment to
17 the Master Thoroughfare Plan to create a street going from Peytonville to Shady Oaks, but
18 that the staff was going to continue working on the project to find the best location.
19
20 Ms. DuPre said that the amendment was also not in its original form but a compromised
21 version. Mr. Fawks said that the City Council knows it will have to do something on that
22 area in the future with the transportation issue with the schools, but there needs to be some
23 more discussion between the two (2) entities.
24
25 Mr. Lawrence stated the district did not oppose the right of way on the Durham site because
26 it would help with the traffic flow but the problem was that it was holding up the site plan.
27 Mr. Lawrence added that when the community decides what it wants it should be workable.
28
29 Mr. Lawrence informed the group on the work on the landscape plan. Mr. Lawrence
30 mentioned that the district is looking at hiring an individual who focuses on the use of native
31 plants and zero - scaping, and added that he wants this consultant, Landscape Administrator
32 Keith Martin, and the landscaping contractors to meet to see if the proposal is a workable
33 solution. Mr. Lawrence stated that they had hoped to have the new proposal ready to go to
34 the Planning and Zoning Commission tonight, but the Commission will be presented with the
35 original plan. Mr. Lawrence stated that in the future CISD would present the revised plan to
36 the Planning and Zoning Commission.
37
38 Ms. DuPre said that SPDC had approved $10,000.00 to do a professional study on the Teen
39 Center, and added that Carroll High School Student Body President Shelby Stengle had
40 committed to working with Parks and Recreation on developing youth activities for the teens
41 such as a 5 quarter after football games. Ms. DuPre stated the Committee and the Parks and
42 Recreation Board should contribute to coming up with alternative activities for teens within
43 the community.
44
45 Mr. Rollins stated that the program development alternative would also be good gauge of
46 demand for a Teen Center. Mr. Harold said that a lack of demand is a concern for Director
47 of Community Services Kevin Hugman regarding the Teen Center. Mr. Glover stated that
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, December 9, 1999. Page 12 of 13
N:IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTES199 minutes112- 9- 99..doc
* * OFFICIAL MINUTES * *
APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 this is why they need to do professional market research in order to find out if there is a
2 demand and market for the center.
3
4 Ms. DuPre said that in the meantime they should be coming up with activities for the kids.
5 Mr. Fawks stated that what we are trying to determine now is what type of facility would the
6 youth and the community support.
7
8 Mr. Lawrence said that the stadium site would be a thirty seven (37) acre site with 7,500
9 seating capacity and parking for 1,500. Mr. Lawrence followed that there will also be three
10 (3) acres of empty space that the Dallas Stars Hockey Club would be looking at using to
11 build an ice hockey arena. Mr. Lawrence mentioned that there are some legal issues
12 regarding this project that the school district is reviewing.
13
14 Mr. Fawks said that the site would be a Dr. Pepper -Star Center and that the Dallas Stars
15 organization would operate the facility and provide programming. Mr. Harold stated that he
16 was not sold on the idea yet because there were still unanswered questions such as financing
17 and the road access. Mr. Fawks said that everyone still has questions, the first of which
18 being is there a suitable piece of property.
19
20 Mr. Glover stated that on the issue of recreational programming for older kids, they are
21 trying to develop a high school in -line hockey league of perhaps ten (10) teams. Mr. Glover
22 stated that the teams would be composed of kids from the same school rather than being
23 mixed up, which appeals to the older kids. Mr. Glover added that he was interested in any
24 input from the Committee on this idea.
25
26 Ms. DuPre asked if the teams would be co -ed. Mr. Glover replied that the teams would be
27 co -ed. Mr. Lawrence said that he thought it was a great idea.
28
29 Agenda Item No. 11, Adjournment- Chairman Gary Fawks adjourned the meeting at 8:58
30 p.m.
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39 'aw
40
41 Attest:
42 /
43
44 Steve ' olasek, Deputy Director of Community Services
45
46
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, December 9, 1999. Page 13 of 13
N:IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutesl12- 9- 99..doc