1999-11-11 * * UNOFFICIAL MINUTES * *
NOT APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 CITY OF SOUTHLAKE
2 JUC -JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEETING
3
4 November 11,1999
5
6 MINUTES
7
8
9 Committee Members Present: Jerry Lawrence, Vice Chair and CISD Representative; Patsy
10 DuPre, City Council Representative; Steve Harold, CISD Representative; John Rollins,
11 CISD Appointed Citizen.
12
13 Committee Members Absent: Gary Fawks, Chair and City Council Representative; James
14 Glover, Parks and Recreation Board Representative; Wendi Carlucci, City Council
15 Appointed Citizen.
16
17 Staff Members Present: Kevin Hugman, Director of Community Services for the City of
18 Southlake; Steve Polasek, Deputy Director of Community Services for the City of
19 Southlake; Steve Johnson, Assistant Superintendent for the Carroll Independent School
20 District; Bob Ledbetter, Athletic Director for the Carroll Independent School District;
21 Brent Kline, Total Program Management (Capital Project Consultant for CISD); Kyle
22 Bacon, SHW (Consultant for CISD); Mark Daniels, Total Project Management (Capital
23 Project Consultant for CISD); Gary Rademacher, SHW (Consultant for CISD); John
24 Eaglen, Administrative Assistant for the City of Southlake.
25
26
27 Agenda Item No. 1, Call to Order — The meeting was called to order by Vice Chair Jerry
28 Lawrence at 6:07 p.m.
29
30 Agenda Item No. 2, Administrative Comments — Mr. Lawrence introduced Mr. John Rollins,
31 the newly appointed CISD Citizen Representative. Mr. Polasek welcomed Mr. Rollins to the
32 Committee.
33
34 Consider:
35
36 Agenda Item No. 3, Approval of the minutes from the October 14, 1999 Meeting- Motion
37 was made to approve the October 14, 1999 and November 1, 1999 Special Meeting minutes
38 with the following changes to the October 14, 1999 minutes:
39
40 • Page 5 of 12 change "require" to "request"
41 • Page 7 of 12 change "collaborated" to "corroborated"
42 • Page 9 of 12 change "of' to "on"
43
44
45
46
47
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, November 11, 1999. Page 1 of 14
N :AParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes111- 11- 99.doc
* * UNOFFICIAL MINUTES * *
NOT APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 Motion: Harold
2 Second: DuPre
3 Ayes: Lawrence, DuPre, Harold, Rollins
4 Nayes: None
5 Approved: 4 -0
6
7 Agenda Item No. 4, Approval of the minutes from the November 1, 1999 Meeting- Approval
8 of the minutes for this meeting occurred in conjunction with the motion to accept the
9 minutes from the October 14, 1999 meeting.
10
11 Agenda Item No. 5, CISD Project Update- Mr. Kline stated that prior to the Committee
12 meeting this evening the Natatorium Project Citizen's Committee met to discuss the project.
13 Mr. Kline stated that the major issued discussed and reviewed during the meeting were the
14 following items:
15
16 • Potential for a Bulkhead
17 • Potential alternatives to increase the amount of bleacher space
18 • Issues pertaining to locker room space
19
20 Mr. Kline proceeded to describe the layout of the site location behind Carroll High School,
21 and then described the proposed natatorium facility layout.
22
23 Ms. DuPre inquired about the air conditioning units on the roof. Mr. Kline confirmed that
24 the units are planned to be on the roof of the building, but that the current plans are to shield
25 them with the building's outer facade. Ms. DuPre asked about the plans for windows on the
26 East Side of the building. Mr. Kline replied that the windows are to be placed towards the
27 top of the exterior walls. Mr. Johnson stated that these windows are necessary to provide
28 natural light into the building. Ms. DuPre inquired about the plans to light the outside of the
29 building. Mr. Kline responded that the lighting will be structured in a way that reflects light
30 upon the building, but minimizes light reflection outward to the surrounding homes in the
31 area.
32
33 Mr. Kline mentioned that the School District has set up SPIN meetings for the natatorium at
34 Carroll High School on November 29, 1999 at 6:00 p.m., and for the middle and intermediate
35 schools and the stadium at the Senior Activity Center on December 6, 1999 at 7:00 p.m. Mr.
36 Kline stated that he would elaborate upon these meetings later in the briefing.
37
38 Mr. Rollins asked how the seating capacity level at seven hundred (700) was determined.
39 Mr. Kline responded that the coaches had determined that this capacity level was adequate
40 based upon their experiences with events at other facilities. Mr. Kline stated that the facility
41 was designed in accordance with the coaches desire to have the lanes of the pool extend
42 vertically versus horizontally, as this alignment creates a "faster" pool. Mr. Johnson stated
43 that the facility has been designed under the premise to build the best facility for the kids,
44 which should be the primary goal.
45
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, November 11, 1999. Page 2 of 14
N:IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes111- 11- 99.doc
* * UNOFFICIAL MINUTES * *
NOT APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 Mr. Kline stated that an alternate plan to add limited seating was to install portable bleachers
2 on the east side of the building adjacent to the diving pool, and installing one (1) row of
3 bleachers all along the north wall of the facility.
4
5 Mr. Lawrence mentioned that the issue with the Citizens' Committee regarding seating
6 entailed building out the bulge in the southeast side of the building to add more seating
7 capacity. Mr. Lawrence mentioned that another issue raised in the Citizens' Committee
8 meeting was the amount of space in the locker room, most notably the amount of showers.
9 Mr. Lawrence stated that one alternative to address this problem would be to reduce the size
10 of the lobby area.
11
12 Mr. Harold asked about the coaches' locker room, and inquired if this area was necessary.
13 Mr. Kline stated that it is customary to have a separate area for the coaches, and that the
14 space would primarily be utilized as an office, but would have lockers adjacent. Mr. Harold
15 asked if there would be additional cost running plumbing into the coaches' locker room area.
16 Mr. Kline responded that the plumbing would be additional, as it is not located in any other
17 areas adjacent to the office space.
18
19 Ms. DuPre raised concern about the project timing, that approving the Site Plan prior to
20 holding a SPIN meeting would limit the utility of the meeting. Mr. Lawrence replied that
21 due to the timing on trying to obtain a Guaranteed Maximum Price (GMP) on the project
22 there is a need for a design. Mr. Johnson stated that the public input gathered at the SPIN
23 meeting will greatly assist in finalizing the aesthetics of the facility, and that the basic design
24 components are what need to be established prior to the meeting.
25
26 Ms. DuPre asked about a concession area. Mr. Kline stated that there is space in the upstairs
27 bleacher area to place a table and chairs. Mr. Polasek asked about a control point in the
28 lobby area. Mr. Johnson responded that a control point in the lobby area would be
29 considered. Mr. Polasek inquired about the storage area, and Mr. Kline replied that it is
30 underneath the bleacher area on the lower level. Mr. Polasek asked if there could be an
31 access point on the backside of the space to facilitate rear entry into the storage area. Mr.
32 Kline stated that this would be possible.
33
34 Mr. Polasek asked about heating the warm -up pool to above seventy -two degrees (72 °), as
35 this is insufficient for casual usage. Mr. Johnson replied that the natatorium in Grapevine is
36 not heated above seventy -two degrees (72 °) and the pool is utilized all day. Mr. Polasek
37 asked if casual swimmers with the lower temperature use the pool, and Mr. Johnson
38 confirmed that casual swimmers utilize the pool at the lower temperature.
39
40 Mr. Lawrence asked Mr. Kline if there are separate heating systems in the facility. Mr. Kline
41 responded that there are multiple pumps, but there is only one heating system for the facility.
42 Mr. Rollins stated that for the public to utilize the warm -up pool, the water temperature
43 would need to be warmer than seventy -two degrees (72 °). Mr. Kline stated that he would
44 investigate heating the warm -up pool in the natatorium.
45
46 Mr. Harold asked from a security standpoint why are there outside exits on the men's and
47 women's locker rooms. Mr. Kline stated that the exits are not intended to be done
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, November 11, 1999. Page 3 of 14
N:IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes111- 11- 99.doc
* * UNOFFICIAL MINUTES * *
NOT APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 immediately to provide outdoor access, that the design marks this access to accommodate a
2 future expansion to utilize the facility for gymnastics. Mr. Harold asked for confirmation
3 that there would be no outdoor access to the locker room area, and Mr. Bacon confirmed that
4 there would not be outdoor access.
5
6 Mr. Ledbetter stated that there is always going to be an issue with the finish line, and that
7 facility managers will have to address preventing spectators from leaning over the railing to
8 watch the finish line. Mr. Ledbetter stated that one potential solution to this problem is to
9 place television monitors upstairs and play the footage, and then the meet could be replayed
10 in between heats. Mr. Ledbetter stated that CISD has the technical capacity to do this at this
11 time.
12
13 Mr. Kline stated that it is problematic to haul television monitors in and out all of the time.
14 Mr. Ledbetter agreed, citing mounting applications as problematic from a maintenance
15 perspective. Mr. Johnson said that the scary thing is that this is a harsh environment and that
16 he could see mounting a bracket in the wall and it eventually rusting. Mr. Ledbetter stated
17 that there is new environmental technology available that will pull the moisture out of the air,
18 and such technology is planned for the natatorium.
19
20 Mr. Harold asked if this technology aspect is in the $20,000.00 category, and does this figure
21 include the television monitors. Mr. Kline said that funding allocated in the technology
22 section is for data cabling for the timing system. Mr. Lawrence stated the funds for the
23 markers and starting blocks are not in the technology funds either. Mr. Kline said that there
24 is F.F.E funding which could be used for purchasing the lane markers. Mr. Ledbetter stated
25 that there is also a huge potential for corporate sponsorship that will assist in purchasing
26 these internal items.
27
28 Mr. Lawrence asked Mr. Kline about the SPIN meeting schedule.
29
30 Mr. Kline said that they are working with SPIN #13 and #16 for the natatorium. Mr. Polasek
31 asked if CISD is working with Assistant to the City Manager Shelli Siemer on setting the
32 SPIN meetings. Mr. Kline responded that he is working through the individual SPIN
33 Representatives, who are in turn working with Ms. Siemer to set the meeting schedules. Mr.
34 Kline stated on Monday, December 6 the City has scheduled a meeting with SPIN #7 and
35 SPIN #8 covering the middle school, intermediate school, and the stadium. Mr. Polasek said
36 that on December 6 the meeting would be at 7 p.m. at either the Senior Activity Center or
37 the CISD annex. Ms. DuPre stated that since they are utilizing Carroll High School for the
38 natatorium SPIN meeting, if the Student Activity Center would be available. Mr. Lawrence
39 stated that it would be better to hold the meeting at the Student Activity Center versus the
40 Auditorium, as that space is large and impersonal.
41
42 Mr. Harold stated that it would be unproductive to go into the SPIN meeting with an attitude
43 of this is what is going to happen. Mr. Harold added that the thing to do is to be prepared to
44 be able to make adjustments that will work with the concerns of the public.
45
46 Mr. Lawrence asked about the timeline for establishing a Guaranteed Maximum Price
47 (GMP) on the natatorium. Mr. Kline said that construction is estimated to begin May 15,
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, November II, 1999. Page 4 of 14
N: (Parks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutesl11- 11- 99.doc
* * UNOFFICIAL MINUTES * *
NOT APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 2000, and that the Guaranteed Maximum Price (GMP) will be established shortly before
2 construction begins.
3
4 Ms. DuPre stated that since the bond election held in March of this year, to date the cost
5 estimates for the natatorium have risen by $1.25 million. Ms. DuPre asked that with the
6 timeline on establishing the Guaranteed Maximum Price (GMP) being out another six (6)
7 months, if the cost estimates for the project could rise again. Mr. Johnson replied that an
8 increase in the Guaranteed Maximum Price (GMP) is possible over the next six (6) months,
9 but the timeline is based upon how long it takes to finalize and draw plans. Mr. Kline added
10 that the longer that the construction is delayed, the possibility of a rising Guaranteed
11 Maximum Price (GMP) increases.
12
13 Mr. Harold asked what the Citizens' Committee felt about opening the facility in August of
14 2000. Mr. Harold stated that his concern is rushing the process to have construction
15 completed by August of 2000, as it could lead to things not being done correctly. Mr.
16 Johnson stated that his understanding of the input from the Citizens' Committee was that the
17 August date was an artificial target date. Mr. Johnson added that his understanding of the
18 message from the Citizens' Committee is that if things are going to be pushed, they need to
19 be pushed in the direction of increasing the quality of the facility.
20
21 Mr. Lawrence said the SPIN meeting for the natatorium would be at the high school on the
22 29 and the SPIN meeting for the two schools and the stadium would be at the senior center
23 on the 6 Mr. Lawrence also stated that the meeting should also be widely publicized, such
24 as on the cable channel. Mr. Polasek said that Assistant to the City Manager Shelli Siemer
25 would get the meeting information on the cable access.
26
27 Mr. Polasek stated that the SPIN groups are leaning towards having the meeting on
28 December 6 at the Senior Activity Center. Mr. Kline concurred; stating that Darrell Faglie
29 had notified him that it would be at the Senior Activity Center. Ms. DuPre mentioned that at
30 a Master Thoroughfare Plan SPIN meeting, the Senior Activity Center was at capacity at
31 around seventy -five (75) people. Mr. Lawrence expressed concern that with the scope of
32 items to be discussed at the meeting, the Senior Activity Center may not be adequate to hold
33 the event. Mr. Harold suggested Johnson Auditorium for the meeting on the 6 because it
34 would have enough space and people would know the location. Mr. Polasek asked what City
35 staff would need to be in attendance. Mr. Kline responded that either Director of Public
36 Works Ron Harper or Senior Civil Engineer Shawn Poe would be adequate, as either of them
37 could address the road issues.
38
39 Mr. Polasek said that he would get a memo out listing the exact times and locations. Ms.
40 DuPre mentioned that it might be beneficial to send letters to residents in the adjacent and
41 surrounding SPIN districts also, as they also have a stake in the project. Mr. Lawrence
42 mentioned that in addition to this it would be beneficial to advertise the meeting to the City
43 as a whole. Mr. Harold suggested that with the increased advertising, it would be beneficial
44 to check into the availability of the Johnson Elementary Auditorium, as it has adequate
45 capacity to hold the event. Mr. Lawrence stated that he would check into the availability of
46 the Johnson Elementary Auditorium for that evening.
47
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, November 11, 1999. Page 5 of 14
N. \Parks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes111- 11- 99.doc
* * UNOFFICIAL MINUTES * *
NOT APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 Agenda Item No. 10, Future Joint Use Facilities, Projects, and Goals - This item was
2 moved up on the agenda. Mr. Lawrence stated that a problem at this time is gymnasium
3 space for basketball with the middle school closing. Mr. Lawrence said that Sherry Berman
4 told him there are one hundred and fifty (150) kids who had to be placed on a waiting list
5 because they did not have a place for them to play. Mr. Harold mentioned that the waiting
6 list has diminished to one hundred and fifty (150) children from four hundred (400). Mr.
7 Lawrence added that traditionally the junior high gym has not been used due to security
8 issues and suggested using either Carroll Elementary or Johnson Elementary.
9
10 Ms. Simpson, a local parent and Southlake resident, said that utilizing these gyms and
11 providing an opportunity for the children of the community to participate in the basketball
12 league would come at virtually no cost. Ms. Simpson said that Carroll High, Carroll Junior
13 High, Carroll Elementary, and Johnson Elementary needed to open to joint use. Ms.
14 Simpson added that as a taxpayer she would like to see the gymnasiums added especially due
15 to the recent spirit of joint use that was illustrated by the city contributing to the natatorium.
16 Ms. Simpson stated that she realizes that the principals at each location have to determine
17 what events are held at the individual schools, however the taxpayers elect the School Board
18 to guard facilities that the taxpayers construct, and questions why any gymnasium is being
19 closed to the children.
20
21 Mr. Johnson stated that he doesn't know why the gymnasiums at Carroll and Johnson
22 Elementary Schools are not being used, but one (1) potential reason for this is that the
23 gyms are small and have no seating capacity. Mr. Johnson added that the gyms would be
24 ideal for practice, and if necessary games.
25
26 Mr. Lawrence said they are working on coordinating the system but that the high school is so
27 busy it is not a viable location. Mr. Lawrence also stated that he did not see opening the
28 elementary schools to joint use as a problem. Ms. DuPre stated that the City needs to know
29 quickly, as the basketball league filled rapidly.
30
31 Mr. Ledbetter stated that the City used to utilize the Johnson Elementary gymnasium for
32 basketball, and does not know why that utilization stopped. Mr. Hugman mentioned that one
33 potential reason may have been, with the smaller gymnasiums, the gyms were utilized for
34 younger age brackets. Mr. Hugman stated that utilization by the younger age brackets tends
35 to draw a greater amount of parents and spectators, and increased the saliency of the capacity
36 issue. Mr. Ledbetter stated that the capacity issue would continue to be a problem in
37 utilizing the gymnasiums, as there is no room for spectators.
38
39 Mr. Hugman stated that if one (1) of the smaller gymnasiums were available, scheduling
40 could be re- worked to address the children on the waiting list. Mr. Harold stated that he was
41 under the impression that the committee would be receiving a report on the available
42 facilities.
43
44 Ms. DuPre said that the concern now was to find a place for the kids to play, and the
45 elementary schools seem like the best location. Ms. DuPre added that the lack of room for a
46 crowd would have to be explained to the parents but they wouldn't be overly concerned as
47 long as their children could have a place to participate.
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, November 11, 1999. Page 6 of 14
N:IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutesl11- 11- 99.doc
* * UNOFFICIAL MINUTES * *
NOT APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1
2 Mr. Harold asked if the Department of Community Services had done anything in
3 anticipation of this problem due to the closing of the middle school.
4
5 Mr. Hugman stated that the City had been aware of the impending problem and had taken
6 steps such as increasing team sizes and eliminating non - residents. Mr. Hugman followed
7 that the enrollment and interest was higher than anticipated with data from last year, and nine
8 hundred (900) children signed up and one hundred and fifty (150) ended up on a waiting list.
9
10 Mr. Polasek said that if the city could get permission to use additional facilities then the
11 Recreation Supervisor Steve Moore could evaluate the facilities and determine which would
12 be best and address any questions.
13
14 Mr. Harold asked if there were coaches available for the kids. Ms. Simpson said that there
15 were coaches available. She also added that she had been to Rockenbaugh Elementary and
16 there is no seating available there as well and asked if the junior high could be used if a
17 security guard was provided.
18
19 Mr. Hugman stated that it was more of an issue of all the access points rather than one of a
20 single security guard. Mr. Polasek added that on a weekly basis, it would be difficult and
21 costly to secure the facility, especially with all of the access points leading to other areas.
22
23 Mr. Rollins asked whether it would be possible for parent volunteers to work as monitors and
24 security and also asked if the new gym at the middle school could be used. Mr. Rollins
25 mentioned that there is outdoor access to the gymnasium at Carroll Middle School, and could
26 the gymnasium be used. Mr. Johnson stated that the electricity had been turned off at the
27 middle school and that for the next few months the gym could not be used. Mr. Johnson
28 further stated that the parental monitors at the Junior High is feasible, but expressed concern
29 about parent volunteers due to problems in the past.
30
31 Ms. DuPre suggested having two (2) game nights a week or using an outside court. Mr.
32 Hugman stated that the best option now is to use Johnson Elementary or Carroll Elementary.
33 Mr. Ledbetter said that the same problem exists at the junior high with twelve (12) teams
34 having to coordinate game and practice times.
35
36 Mr. Lawrence stated that in the short term Carroll Elementary and Johnson Elementary could
37 solve the problem. Mr. Harold asked if a progress report could be provided at the next
38 meeting on this situation.
39
40 Mr. Ledbetter said that another middle school needs to be established because currently the
41 school district is having over 400 children come out for basketball, and it is impossible to
42 accommodate them. Ms. Simpson stated that this problem is due in part to the success of the
43 Parks and Recreation programming, and that is a reason to address the capacity issues.
44
45 Mr. Lawrence asked if they are still using intramural teams. Mr. Ledbetter said that due to
46 lack of room, facilities, staff, and places to practice, the program was no longer in use.
47
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, November 11, 1999. Page 7 of 14
N IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes\11- 11- 99.doc
* * UNOFFICIAL MINUTES * *
NOT APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 Ms. DuPre asked if the principals of Carroll Elementary and Johnson Elementary could still
2 say no to allow league play there. Mr. Lawrence said that it was a district decision and there
3 would be no real reason for the principals to have a problem with it. Mr. Hugman stated that
4 the people would be happy that their kids could play even if it isn't the most ideal of a
5 situation. Mr. Harold asked if the use of Carroll and Johnson Elementary Gymnasiums
6 would address the problem. Mr. Hugman stated that he did not know if the use of these two
7 (2) gyms would allow the City to clear the waiting list, but it should help tremendously.
8
9 Mr. Lawrence asked what was the time line of the recreation center. Mr. Hugman said that
10 the time line was unclear due to the cost of the project and having to space projects over
11 several years. Mr. Lawrence asked about the teen center. Mr. Hugman said that interestingly
12 enough most of the kids he had spoken to were not in favor of a teen center. Mr. Hugman
13 added that the Youth Parks and Recreation Board had indicated that they were not in favor of
14 a teen center even if it meant waiting longer for a recreation center.
15
16 Ms. DuPre said that another issue that should be considered is that last year the City Council
17 passed a resolution to subsidize the cost of a crossing guard at Continental and Byron
18 Nelson. Ms. DuPre asked if this topic could be revisited. Mr. Harold questioned if people
19 actually use the crossing guard. Ms. DuPre suggested having a trial period for a crossing
20 guard during the time period the children are arriving and leaving the school.
21
22 Mr. Lawrence said that he spoke with Ms. Meryl Babcock and they do have a crossing guard
23 to get children across Byron Nelson from the school. Mr. Lawrence mentioned the issues
24 with the crossing guard such as whether the distance of a mile from the school to the crossing
25 point would preclude the usage due to how many parents would actually allow a kindergarten
26 through fourth grade child to walk that far to school; and, secondly the school provides
27 buses. Mr. Lawrence added that there is a safety committee at the school and a parent is in
28 charge. He said that Ms. Babcock is going to ask the committee how many parents had
29 voiced a concern and if there was only a few it is a non - issue.
30
31 Ms. DuPre said that there is a considerable number of kids who do walk and bike to school
32 because of the bike path from Continental to Rockenbaugh. Ms. DuPre added that Garland
33 Wilson had committed a person to watch traffic to see if a crossing guard is needed.
34
35 Mr. Lawrence said that currently at the junior high there are two crosswalks and one crossing
36 guard but whenever he has driven past she has not been very busy. Mr. Lawrence said that
37 most of the kids who travel to the junior high cross at Chapel Downs and White Chapel
38 where there is not a crosswalk.
39
40 Ms. Dupre asked for clarification on the process that occurred to get a school zone at White
41 Chapel. Mr. Lawrence said that it was always a concern because of the large residential
42 neighborhood there and the use of White Chapel as a commuter street.
43
44 Mr. Harold asked if the police department could be asked to monitor the traffic, and if that
45 information could be combined with the feedback from Ms. Babcock's committee to
46 determine if the crossing guard is needed. Ms. DuPre said she would ask Garland Wilson to
47 devote a person to observe the traffic to determine if there is a need for a crossing guard.
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, November 11, 1999. Page 8 of 14
N:IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes111- 11- 99.doc
* * UNOFFICIAL MINUTES * *
NOT APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1
2 Agenda Item No. 6, Interlocal agreement for Park, Playground, and Other Recreation
3 Facilities -
4
5 Mr. Polasek introduced this item to the committee. Mr. Polasek mentioned that now was a
6 good time to bring this issue forward to the committee due to the two (2) year age of the
7 agreement in May, and requests from the youth sport associations for additional facilities.
8
9 Mr. Harold questioned which individuals made up the joint use management committee. Mr.
10 Johnson stated that it was initiated by Curtis Hawk and Bill Brannum and was agreed upon
11 by the School Board and the City Council at the time that those individuals would make up
12 the committee. Ms. DuPre stated that maybe changes should be made to the policy. Mr.
13 Johnson stated that there are several potential areas to make changes. Mr. Polasek
14 mentioned that it would be brought forth on the next agenda.
15
16 Mr. Harold said that he doesn't differ with the agreement from a general standpoint, but a
17 condition of the SPDC motion allocating funding for the natatorium is to develop an
18 interlocal agreement for the facility. Mr. Harold questioned whether it was the intention to
19 create individual agreements for different facilities, or was the intention of the motion to
20 combine all of the facilities into one (1) encompassing agreement. Mr. Harold expressed that
21 his main concern was maintenance and scheduling for the facilities.
22
23 Mr. Hugman stated that the intention at the time of the first interlocal agreement was to
24 create an umbrella agreement for the facilities. However, if there were special case facilities
25 there would be separate agreement for that facility that would either be an addendum
26 agreement or a separate agreement.
27
28 Mr. Harold stated that he envisioned the natatorium as an addendum or separate agreement.
29 Mr. Hugman mentioned that there would be several other issues that the City and the
30 committee would want to address in the natatorium agreement.
31
32 Mr. Harold said that the Junior High School would require a separate understanding
33 agreement, due to the security and code issues. Mr. Harold also stated that he didn't get the
34 feeling at the board meeting as to whether or not data was available about how much it costs
35 to operate these facilities and what the maintenance is.
36
37 Ms. DuPre added that there is a cost to everything but many times it is the same people
38 whose children are going to the school who may be using the school for city sponsored park
39 and recreation program. Mr. Harold stated that he understood that it is the same parents that
40 pay the same bill but the revenue comes from different sources. Mr. Harold indicated that he
41 did not want to leave the agreements too open, and pointed out the portion of the agreement
42 which stated that on the issue of major maintenance if one party does not pay then the other
43 party has the right to pay. Mr. Hugman said that they have funds in their budget for
44 improvements, which can be used for maintenance.
45
46 Mr. Polasek added that the city has always had the position that whenever there was a
47 maintenance issue the City would be willing to address it, but there has never been a blanket
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, November 11, 1999. Page 9 of 14
N:IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes111- 11- 99.doc
* * UNOFFICIAL MINUTES * *
NOT APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 agreement on a set amount for maintenance. Mr. Harold stated that perhaps for budget
2 purposes the Committee should look at joint use facilities like a separate entity and develop a
3 budget for the School Board and City and based on historical experience.
4
5 Mr. Hugman said that when the agreements were first developed there was a great deal of
6 discussion about the maintenance costs but the conclusion was that we didn't really know
7 what those costs would be and we left them open- ended. Mr. Harold stated that leaving them
8 open -ended creates hard feelings, and added that both sides need to develop those numbers if
9 the systems can capture them. Mr. Johnson stated that there was an attempt being made now
10 to derive the number. Ms. DuPre asked about which process would be used to derive those
11 numbers.
12
13 Mr. Johnson stated as an example, utility costs, when the school closed a gym but the City
14 used it, therefore in order to calculate what the City owes for the utilities would be the cost
15 for a week divided by seven and the multiplied by the days that the city used the gym. Mr.
16 Johnson also added that he is not sure what the answer is to derive the numbers but some
17 system needs to be developed in order to prevent the questions being raised about what each
18 side is paying for joint use. Ms. DuPre asked about whether anyone has put in a request to
19 see how other cities handle joint use. Mr. Hugman answered by stating that there are not
20 really any other cities that do what Southlake does.
21
22 Mr. Polasek added that most cities share outdoor facilities but no indoor facilities. Mr.
23 Polasek described the Mid - cities Youth Activities Commission where they allocated fields
24 and space for practice for the youth sport associations. Mr. Lawrence asked if budgetary
25 issues ever came up in the Mid - cities situation. Mr. Polasek said no because none of the
26 practice facilities were lighted and all the game facilities were run by the cities.
27
28 Mr. Lawrence stated that as far as he can see the budgeting would be for utilities, supplies,
29 and maybe resurfacing a gym floor at the end of the season on an as needed basis. Mr.
30 Harold said that stoppage of soccer at Durham due to damage to facility is a good example of
31 what developing the numbers for maintenance costs could alleviate. Mr. Rollins asked if this
32 was truly damage or routine wear and tear. Mr. Johnson stated that in this case damage
33 occurred to the floor. Mr. Harold replied that if there is a provision to cover facility damage
34 then there doesn't have to be a stoppage, and one group does not get angry at the other.
35
36 Ms. DuPre said that the Committee must determine as a first step what is included in joint
37 use maintenance.
38
39 Mr. Lawrence added that there are other things that the CISD and the City do such as the
40 added funding for the natatorium which was a large sum of money, or when the City puts up
41 some soccer nets or baseball diamonds when they utilize facilities, and then the school
42 benefits as well. Mr. Lawrence indicated that the money allotted for maintenance would not
43 be a large amount.
44
45 Ms. DuPre followed by saying that if determining an amount to be spent on maintenance by
46 each group would resolve any discomfort and if its not a significant amount then the
47 committee should move forward with finding a number.
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, November 11, 1999. Page 10 of 14
N:IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes111- 11- 99.doc
* * UNOFFICIAL MINUTES * *
NOT APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1
2 Mr. Lawrence asked about the scheduling aspect of the usage agreements.
3
4 Mr. Polasek explained that the information given to the committee was part of the original
5 version. Mr. Hugman said that there was modifications to the scheduling portion because
6 the original agreement was based upon a one (1) time a year schedule. Mr. Hugman said
7 that they had a meeting with Superintendent Dr. Ted Gillum and the principals, and that was
8 when the process was adjusted to three (3) times a year and they would like to modify it
9 again.
10
11 Mr. Lawrence added that he envisioned a few representatives from the school and a few from
12 the City sit down and discuss this three times a year rather than having to call a big group.
13 Mr. Polasek said that that idea would work well. Mr. Polasek followed that from the City's
14 perspective the process would work as the City putting forth a list of requests, and then the
15 school representative would coordinate the approval with the necessary individuals on their
16 end. Mr. Polasek added that the process would increase the efficiency of the process for both
17 parties..
18
19 Ms. DuPre asked if the school principals were responsible for making decisions about the use
20 of school facilities. Mr. Lawrence said they were district facilities and the district would
21 make the decision. Mr. Lawrence also added that the idea was to have all of the principals
22 block out the time they wanted and submit that to the district and then the combined
23 submittals would be given to the City. He indicated that this would eliminate the problem of
24 the City having to contact a great number of people.
25
26 Mr. Lawrence stated that in defense of the principals he understood their wish to maintain
27 some use of their facilities. Mr. Hugman said that in the past there was some problems for
28 the schools when they wanted to have a speaker that they didn't know about when the
29 schedules were made and it was difficult for them to have such events when the City was
30 utilizing their gyms or cafeterias. Mr. Hugman added that the City tried to work it out that
31 one (1) night a week would be left open, but it was difficult to maintain that goal.
32
33 Mr. Harold said that the students come first with school facilities, but this is also a
34 community -wide issue. Mr. Harold stated that if a school does not know about a speaker
35 when the schedules are made and they want to have one, then that is a situation that falls
36 under schedule changes and should be worked out between the Superintendent and the City
37 Manager.
38
39 Ms. DuPre added that the city should also make arrangements for curriculum nights because
40 there was practices occurring during the events this year. Ms. DuPre indicated that having
41 the City call off the practices for those nights would be a good idea. Mr. Hugman stated that
42 School District Master Calendar has been very helpful especially with situations such as
43 curriculum night.
44
45 Mr. Harold asked if Mr. Ledbetter was the focal point for the schools regarding scheduling
46 and who was the focal point for the City. Mr. Hugman said that the City had been working
47 with Mr. Ledbetter but the principals of the schools still had to sign off. Mr. Harold stated
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, November 11, 1999. Page 11 of 14
N:IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes\11- 11- 99.doc
* * UNOFFICIAL MINUTES * *
NOT APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 that if the school had made a commitment of its facilities and then wanted to have them back
2 for an event then they should have to go back to Mr. Ledbetter and ask. Mr. Polasek stated
3 that if Mr. Ledbetter or his staff could be the point of contact, it would be helpful.
4
5 Mr. Johnson indicated that demands on Mr. Ledbetter's office have been increasing and that
6 he wasn't sure if his office would be able to keep up with all the demands of the future. Mr.
7 Johnson also stated that an extra staff person responsible for facility scheduling would have
8 to eventually be developed.
9
10 Mr. Lawrence said that for the time being the process would be streamlined to allow the City
11 to have to only deal with one person and that in the future the board would have to address a
12 full -time position for facility scheduling. Mr. Lawrence clarified that Mr. Ledbetter is the
13 contact point as of now, and that the School Board will have to address the need of a full -
14 time facilities manager in the future.
15
16 Mr. Harold asked who is Mr. Ledbetter's counterpart with the City would be. Mr. Hugman
17 indicated that ultimately it would be his responsibility but a great deal of the interfacing
18 would be through Recreation Supervisor Steve Moore. Mr. Johnson added that if necessary,
19 he would provide staff support from the Human Resources area to work with the City to
20 smooth over the process. Mr. Johnson stated that the first step is to identify the process
21 steps, and see how the process works.
22
23 Mr. Harold added that this is a good proposal, but it is necessary to make sure that the
24 principals understand it and it isn't compulsory without input. Mr. Polasek said that he
25 envisions Mr. Johnson, Mr. Ledbetter, Mr. Moore, and himself sitting down and going
26 through the document and list of facilities and making changes and comments, and then
27 bring in the document with the recommended changes back to the committee. Ms. DuPre
28 asked if the Committee members could provide input. Mr. Polasek replied that he would
29 welcome input from the Committee at any time during the process.
30
31 Mr. Harold asked what is the next step on the agreements. Mr. Polasek stated that the
32 committee would make the changes at the next meeting and when the Committee is
33 comfortable with the document it would be submitted to the City Council and the School
34 Board. Mr. Polasek asked that any input be forwarded to his attention so that the changes
35 could be incorporated into a draft version for review at the next meeting.
36
37 Mr. Lawrence indicated that the next meeting was on December 9, 1999 and that he would
38 like to see Mr. Polasek get together with Mr. Ledbetter and the school because the next
39 discussion should occur from the school's perspective. Mr. Polasek indicated that he would
40 like comments from the Committee, but asked to have them by the 30 of November in order
41 to include them in the packet.
42
43 Ms. DuPre requested that the schools outline all the new schools and fields that they are
44 planning so that the city can see if they can place backstops for various practices. Mr.
45 Lawrence said that they would look at where the schools are being placed and what would be
46 left for open space. Ms. DuPre asked if the city played any games on school property or
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, November II, 1999. Page 12 of 14
N:IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTESI99 minutes\11- 11- 99.doc
* * UNOFFICIAL MINUTES * *
NOT APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 Board. Mr. Polasek asked that any input be forwarded to his attention so that the changes
2 could be incorporated into a draft version for review at the next meeting.
3
4 Mr. Lawrence indicated that the next meeting was on December 9, 1999 and that he would
5 like to see Mr. Polasek get together with Mr. Ledbetter and the school because the next
6 discussion should occur from the school's perspective. Mr. Polasek indicated that he would
7 like comments from the Committee, and asked to have them by the 30th of November in
8 order to include them in the packet.
9
10 Ms. DuPre requested that the schools outline all the new schools and fields that they are
11 planning so that the city can see if they can place backstops for various practices. Mr.
12 Lawrence said that they would look at where the schools are being placed and what would be
13 left for open space. Ms. DuPre asked if the city played any games on school property or
14 mainly used the school for practice areas. Mr. Hugman indicated that only a few games were
15 played on school property.
16
17 Ms. DuPre stated that her overall concern was that the school fields are reserved for games.
18 Mr. Lawrence said that the game fields could have increased usage while maintaining a good
19 condition.
20
21 Ms. DuPre asked if the City was short for practice fields. Mr. Hugman stated that not for
22 soccer because the city just had another soccer field come on line at St. Martin's in the Field
23 and it wasn't used but that baseball and softball needed more facilities. Mr. Polasek said that
24 they were short in those areas but are looking to address those issues in the Open Space
25 Master Plan and the Parks CIP.
26
27 Mr. Harold requested that the committee look closely at facilities which are restricted to just
28 game days. Mr. Harold stated that this should be the exception rather than the rule because
29 there is a shortage of land now.
30
31 Mr. Hugman stated that having just game fields does provide a higher quality and reduce
32 maintenance, but at the moment the city only has that luxury with soccer. Mr. Lawrence said
33 that the school district would be opening new fields for softball and baseball at the high
34 school and that the junior high has a baseball and softball field. Mr. Hugman indicated that
35 varsity girls use the City's fields now, and when those facilities come on line this will relieve
36 some pressure.
37
38 Mr. Lawrence stated that having kids who want to play is a good thing and efforts should be
39 made to have facilities for them. Mr. Harold said he would like to see it be a policy that the
40 boards would have to approve game only fields. Mr. Hugman stated that at the time the City
41 did not have to turn anyone away due to game -field only space.
42
43 Mr. Lawrence said that at the schools they have had to turn people away, but in the interim
44 he would like to see a policy made where varsity fields are designated, and then the rest
45 could be left open. Ms. DuPre stated that at Bicentennial Park the in -line hockey and
46 basketball sites are to be open to the public except during practices and games.
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, November 11, 1999. Page 13 of 14
N.•IParks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTES199 minutes111- 11- 99.doc
* * UNOFFICIAL MINUTES * *
NOT APPROVED BY THE JOINT UTILIZATION COMMITTEE MEMBERS
1 Mr. Lawrence stated that there was no rush because the facility would be opening in August
2 2001 and that the document should include a tentative scheduling agreement and a general
3 overall philosophical statement about hours of operation and control.
4
5 Mr. Polasek stated that staff would begin to work on this item and bring it forward to the
6 Committee in the near future.
7
8 Agenda Item No. 8, Community Services Project Update- Ms. DuPre reminded the
9 committee about the lighting of the park.
10
11 Mr. Hugman said that the Town Square lighting would be Friday November 20 and the
12 holiday lighting with the tree would be Dec 4 Mr. Hugman said that the event would
13 feature Santa Claus, crafts, and carriage rides.
14
15 Agenda Item No. 9, City Project Update- There was no discussion on this item.
16
17 Agenda Item No. 10, Future Joint Use Facilities, Projects, and Goals - This item was moved
18 forward on the agenda.
19
20 Agenda Item No. 11, Adjournment - The Committee determined to hold the next meeting at
21 the CISD annex, and Mr. Johnson will check on the availability of the annex for the coming
22 year.
23
24 Vice -Chair Jerry Lawrence adjourned the meeting at 9:28 p.m.
25
110,
' • �' /,'
27 a
28 Attest:
29
30
31 Steve olasek, Deputy Director of Community Services
Joint Utilization Committee Meeting, November 11, 1999. Page 14 of 14
N:11 arks & Recreation \COMITEESIJUCIMINUTES199 minutes111- 11- 99.doc