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2004-07-21 Meeting Report (Tara Lakes)SPIN CITYWIDE FORUM OF PARTICULAR INTEREST TO AREAS #2, #3, AND #5 TOPIC: PROPOSED TARA LAKES RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AT THE VICINITY OF DOVE ROAD AND N. WHITE CHAPEL BLVD. WEDNESDAY, JULY 21, 2004 7 :00 P.M. SOUTHLAKE TOWN HALL TRAINING ROOMS 93C AND 931) SUMMARY OF QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS I apologize for asking questions, but I missed the first meeting. Am I looking north, or am I looking south? Is this the land between Dove Road and the Aventerra Property? As a citizen that Iives up along Dove Road, I can tell you that I don't want an exit from this development up along Dove Road_ I don't want all of the traffic from this high density development, and I use that term purposely, from this entrance onto Dove Road. I am opposed to this type of density on this side of town, but if you go forward, I would like to have you address traffic issues from your proposal in an area that already has a traff c issue in the general area. It seems to me that most people would come out on White Chapel unless they are going to the schools. Also, if you go out White Chapel and go up to Dove Road., you in effect have the same amount of traffic in the area regardless, as they would be going to the schools and most likely would not go around to Carroll Avenue to get to the schools. Otherwise they would exit White Chapel versus using a Dove Road exit„ You bought three acres, you have added some open space; you have added one residential lot, so basically you have reduced the lot sizes? Mathematics says that overall the lots have gone down in size slightly. The 1.49 density calculation is net acreage or gross acreage? Your density calculation is a little over a half acre per home. Have you guys approached the City about dedicating the right -of� -way for Dove Road expansion and constructing your portion so it would open up Dove Road and help the traffic in the general area. It would help if you would get the City to participate in constructing this expansion with you and address the traffic issues in the area. Far northeast corner what's going on up there now in terns of drainage improvements from the Estes Park people? They have been digging up there for the past three weeks? How does what you propose tie into what the Estes Park people are doing? They have a lot work putting in their drainage improvements. You are causing that additional drainage flow in the area by developing this property. How many acres dumps into that watershed that you described earlier? Did you figure all of the runoff from those watersheds into your drainage calculations, or are you ,just detaining your property in these calculations? In the meantime that the property to the south of you doesn't develop, you are going to be catching the runoff from that property as well. How far do you think that you are going to allow that retention pond to rise to when you get a three inch rain like we have had three times this year? It comes real fast and that is a lot of water that is going to be coming to that retention pond at one time. Both you and the other guy that has a retention pond in the area are going to be dumping a whole lot of water on the area. Does the City have confidence in your engineer to catch this potential drainage issue? They haven't caught that in the past. How many cubic feet is each side of that retention pond you show there? Is that all that you think is the amount of water that is going to go through there? SPIN Citywide Forunr Tara Lakes Wednesday, July 21, 2004 Page 1 of 4 SPIN CITYWIDE FORUM OF PARTICULAR INTEREST TO AREAS #2, #3, AND #S TOPIC: PROPOSED TARA LAKES RE SIDENTL4L DEVELOPMENT AT THE VICINITY OF DOVE ROAD AND N. WHITE CHAPEL BLVD. WEDNESDAY, JULY 21, 2004 7:00 P.M. SOUTHLAKE TOWN HALL TRAINING ROOMS #3C AND 93D SUMMARY OF QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS I am glad that you bought that piece of property between there, it was a problem piece of property, On the western pond, what kind of fencing are you going to propose for the residents that back up to that pond? Or are you just leaving it like it is? How are you going to address that 18" pipe are you going to take it out? And, is that going to be natural grass in that ditch or is it going to be a concrete swale? On White Chapel on the west side you are saying no ditch, when water comes you are not going to have anything to capture the water. You are going to have to have the City come in and construct that ditch, aren't you? When they realigned Dove Road, the City messed up that ditch on the west side. And are you meeting with the City tomorrow? Will you mention that ditch in your conversations with them? Are you going to aerate that retention pond? I don't know if you want the issues relating to algae buildup and the West Nile Virus issues, do you? So you plan to at least put a fountain in the ponds, correct? In the upper northwest corner, what is the development that is called landscape bufferyard? So what about the cul -de -sac in the northwest corner? How many lots are in that area? What are the values of the homes you propose in the area? How wide is that screening strip that you show up there? From the edge of the road to the wall? Is the City going to make you put sidewalks out there? The west side of White Chapel is supposed to be commercial development; it wouldn't make sense to have the trail run along the west side of the road versus the east side of the road. With fountains like that you show, who pays the bills for that? The homeowners? I think that it looks like a nice development, but, on the other side of that coin, it is some give and tape here. Are you just assuming that you are going to get approved here, are the people that are here ,just going to give in on the density issue. I know that you need to maximize what you put in your pocket, but we Iive here. This proposed increase in density is going to cause an increase in the traffic along Dove Road, which is already a problem. To the people that are here, are we going to roll over on the density issues here? I think that your proposal is a nice development, but I have been coming to these meetings for some time and this is the third one of these. I imagine that I will be coming to a fourth, fifth, and sixth meeting on this as well. What is happening is that the lots keep getting smaller. What needs to happen here is that the people on the north side of town need a chance to vote on whether or not they want one acre lots, and if' people vote to support smaller lots, then make the change to the Land Use Plan and it is a dead issue. People are busy and can't always make these meetings, and a lot of people can't make these meetings or don't know that it is going on. SPIN Citywide Forutn Tara Lakes Wednesday, July 21, 2004 Page 2 of 4 SPIN CITYWIDE FORUM OF PARTICULAR INTEREST TO AREAS #2, #3, AND #5 TOPIC: PROPOSED TARA LAKES RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AT THE VICIMTY OF DOVE ROAD AND N. WHITE CHAPEL BLVD. WEDNESDAY, JULY 21, 2004 7:00 P.M. SOUTHLAKE TOWN HALL TRAINING ROOMS #3C AND 93D SUMMARY OF QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS What is happening here is that the City Council is granting variances on a case -by -case basis, and what is in place gets slowly withered away in small chunks, and people do not notice the small chunks until there is a fundamental difference,. That was not the intent of the Land Use Plan, and what happens is that when you consider things on a case -by -case basis, you erode the Land Use Plan. I have sat in a lot of these meetings and have heard the people sit in here and voice opposition to these developments, and we have P &Z Commissioners here and they go and do what they want to do, and City Council goes and does what they want to do, and this issue should be put to the vote of the people. I know that the same thing happened on the south side of'town, the people on the north side of town don't like what has happened on the south side of town, and we don't like seeing it starting to happen on the north side of town. When I moved to Southlake everything was one acre. We always wanted to maintain that so we could keep houses that our children could be able to afford. Can our children all afford houses like are on the ground in Timarron? Do you know when you are going to Planning and Zoning with this proposal? Have you looked at a plan where the density of the gross acreage equals one acre? So what you are saying is that the margins are not right to accomplish this type of proposal? So they can't make any money and we want them to work here, so we grant them the variances they need to make it work and go to half-acre lots and below. Everyone that has come in here and said that they need half acre lots to make it work financially, and it begs the question, why do we have to grant the variances? Go somewhere else and develop where you can make the money that you need to make on development. You have done a good,job. The bottom line is not that the problem is not with you. It is with the premise that you are basing this proposal on. The City needs to make a determination on the zoning on the north side of town and stick to it. I have a difficult time accepting that you cannot make money looking at lower density development, all of the trade -offs that you would need to make are there, and you should be able to do what others on the north side have been able to do with lower density. We are talking about $50,000 per lot difference, and you are not taking into account the impact of the traffic, the impact on the schools, and other things associated with higher density brings to the general area, If the City forced the issue of one -acre lots in this neighborhood, you would not go forward with this proposal? What kind of square footage are we talking about on these homes? How are you going to assure that the builders that you select will stay in a certain ballpark regarding minimum square footage for these homes? This open space concept, a lot of people like the green concept, but I never see people out there using these areas. But everybody loves them in these meetings. SPIN Citywide Forurn Tara Lakes Wednesday, July 21, 2004 Page 3 of 4 SPIN CITYWIDE FORUM OF PARTICULAR INTEREST TO AREAS #2, #3, AND #5 TOPIC: PROPOSED TARA LAKES RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AT THE VICINITY OF DOVE ROAD AND N. WHITE CHAPEL BLVD. WEDNESDAY, JULY 21, 2004 7 :00 P.M. SOUTHLAKE TOWN HALL TRAINING ROOMS #3C AND #31) SUMMARY OF QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS Our big concern is what is happening with the trends. When you add Tara Lakes, Estes Park I, Estes Park II, Triple C Ranch, and then AventerT'a, that is a huge impact on the traffic on Dove Road, We have a lot of cedars along Dove Road and the day is coming when Dove Road is going to have to be expanded to handle all of the traffic. I am not looking forward to that day. SPRY Citywide Forum Tara Lakes Wednesday, Jury 21, 2004 Page 4 of 4